France Bombs ISIS In Raqqa, Syria

[KevinNYC]

Disgusting propaganda.

Tell it to the people he's barrel bombed.

[BasedTom]

The irony.

Boots on the ground.

Can you be any more specific than that? Where are you sending these boots? How many boots? What would their specific duties be? If ISIS were somehow completely eradicated... to whom would you transfer governance? How would Assad and Russia fit into the final political configuration? What about the Kurds and the Yazidi?

Remember the last time We had boots on the ground? ISIS grew out of that after the region was completely destabilized by our pointless and costly meddling.

The US certainly meddled in the Balkans a while back, and it isn't as if the region is in a war torn state to this day with fighting and civil wars as the norm. Right or wrong, it's how it is.

The point is that in the MidEast you have a fundamentally different mindset with the people that isn't going to change unless there is a drastic action. And you know what? You can live with these loonies living in the stone age if they're contained in their countries and playing with sticks and rocks...But our governments have stood by and allowed them to not only acquire money and resources to wage war with each other, but also welcomed them into civilised countries in a most irresponsible manner. What possible benefit could there be to gain from that?

If you want my plan to permanently rid the world ISIS and similar islamic groups, then don't expect it to be sunshine and lollipops.

[DonDadda59]

The US certainly meddled in the Balkans a while back, and it isn't as if the region is in a war torn state to this day with fighting and civil wars as the norm. Right or wrong, it's how it is.

The point is that in the MidEast you have a fundamentally different mindset with the people that isn't going to change unless there is a drastic action. And you know what? You can live with these loonies living in the stone age if they're contained in their countries and playing with sticks and rocks...But our governments have stood by and allowed them to not only acquire money and resources to wage war with each other, but also welcomed them into civilised countries in a most irresponsible manner. What possible benefit could there be to gain from that?

If you want my plan to permanently rid the world ISIS and similar islamic groups, then don't expect it to be sunshine and lollipops.

That's just it- you get rid of one, another immediately takes its place. Where was ISIS before Cheney's wars? Where was the Taliban and Al Qaeda before the Carter and Reagan administrations provided them with hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons and training?

The more we meddle, the more ISIS-like groups are created. It's a never ending cycle that we keep trying to bomb our way out of. That strategy is completely ineffective and costs lives and an absurd amount of money and resources.

[BasedTom]

That's just it- you get rid of one, another immediately takes its place. Where was ISIS before Cheney's wars? Where was the Taliban and Al Qaeda before the Carter and Reagan administrations provided them with hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons and training?

The more we meddle, the more ISIS-like groups are created. It's a never ending cycle that we keep trying to bomb our way out of. That strategy is completely ineffective and costs lives and an absurd amount of money and resources.

What I'm suggesting is not a half assed effort where you wreck shit and then pull out and then get called back in when another group inevitably pops up.

I'm implying something that would entail what some would consider ethnic cleansing/imperialism. Something similar to what Israel is doing to expand, or what Stalin did with his undesirables. Instead of bringing in hundreds of thousands of them into Europe and America, the tables are turned on them.

But something more realistic would involve cutting off their supply of funding from the Saudis/supporting shitty and authoritarian rulers like Assad.

[Patrick Chewing]

The irony.

Boots on the ground.

Can you be any more specific than that? Where are you sending these boots? How many boots? What would their specific duties be? If ISIS were somehow completely eradicated... to whom would you transfer governance? How would Assad and Russia fit into the final political configuration? What about the Kurds and the Yazidi?

Remember the last time We had boots on the ground? ISIS grew out of that after the region was completely destabilized by our pointless and costly meddling.

Transfer governance? ISIS is not a governing body or a country. Jesus, man.

Everyone knows ISIS grew out of Al-Qaeda, and grew because we withdrew forces too soon thanks to that clown in the oval office. Remember, ISIS just isn't killing Westerners, they are killing fellow Muslims as well. They are after a Caliphate. How can I explain this better? Umm, yeah, like the Lord of the Rings. One ring to rule them all. One caliphate/religion to rule them all.


The Nazi Army was bigger and far worse than ISIS, and they were defeated. You didn't see them sprout up again did you?

All I see you doing is shitting on everyone else's opinions and ideas just because they do not align with your frame of thought, yet you continue to fail to provide a solution to the problem. Almost all of your answers include blaming the victim (France, United States, Western Democracy).

You think my idea of infiltrating the source of this radicalism is impossible? That's the only way. And once these cowardly moderate Muslims get their shit together and attack this radicalism at its source, then we will have the best chance to root out this evil once and for all. It is the 21st century after all. These animals go against progress. There is no room for them on this planet or anyone that sympathizes with them.

[BasedTom]

Transfer governance? ISIS is not a governing body or a country. Jesus, man.

Everyone knows ISIS grew out of Al-Qaeda, and grew because we withdrew forces too soon thanks to that clown in the oval office. Remember, ISIS just isn't killing Westerners, they are killing fellow Muslims as well. They are after a Caliphate. How can I explain this better? Umm, yeah, like the Lord of the Rings. One ring to rule them all. One caliphate/religion to rule them all.


The Nazi Army was bigger and far worse than ISIS, and they were defeated. You didn't see them sprout up again did you?

All I see you doing is shitting on everyone else's opinions and ideas just because they do not align with your frame of thought, yet you continue to fail to provide a solution to the problem. Almost all of your answers include blaming the victim (France, United States, Western Democracy).

You think my idea of infiltrating the source of this radicalism is impossible? That's the only way. And once these cowardly moderate Muslims get their shit together and attack this radicalism at its source, then we will have the best chance to root out this evil once and for all. It is the 21st century after all. These animals go against progress. There is no room for them on this planet or anyone that sympathizes with them.

The Allies committed ethnic cleansing, utterly ruined and raped much of German lands (that in particular was mostly by the soviets), and instituted long term propaganda campaigns that have irreparably brainwashed the German populace and actively encourages them to tear down and be ashamed of their identity.

It wasn't Bob and Ivan infiltrating german schools and churches in 1939 and occasionally raising their hands to say "Hey...this nazi stuff is kinda bad man. Let's stop."

[Patrick Chewing]

Why don't I ever provide solutions?

It's because I don't see an easy option. The US Army is not set up for decades long colonial wars and occupations. A military draft is a non-starter in this country. So that means the same boots keep getting sent to the same ground over and over. It's obvious that is something the administration wants to keep to a minimum.

So that leaves locals. However, there are no local troops to work with that are A. reliable and B. strong enough to achieve our desired goals. The closest we have come are the Kurds and even that has its own complications.

I guess because I see this a real thorny issue with bad options on all sides and where the gut instinct answer might be the wrong answer. This is a case where if you can fit it on a bumper sticker you're probably going to turn out to be wrong.

Someone said my response was smart. Well it's not my response, I just follow some smart people who track this stuff.

Attacking ISIS is not an overreaction and I never said it was. But you can attack ISIS without saying Kill 'em and Let God Sort "em out. You can go after ISIS without going after "Muslims.

One of the smartest things Bush did after 9/11 was not immediately react, but carefully plan the invasion of Afghanistan. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were already arguing for Iraq. Douglas Feith arguing for bombing South America (Cuz they wouldn't see it coming!)

Forget ISIS for a moment. Honestly, I really think ISIS can be defeated in less than 3 months. But let's put aside those guys for the moment. What is your solution for changing the ideology that breeds these type of fundamentalists?? Cause that is the real issue. The world can't just sit idly by until the Muslims themselves get the bigger picture. It's too late for that, what with all the migration to other countries. The threat is here. The threat is now, and sooner or later you and I will have to deal with it from a perspective of never knowing if we are going to be safe once we leave the house, or attend a sporting event, etc.. That's where Liberals like you come in and say, "oh don't worry our government will protect us", when frankly that is the wrong thing to be assuming considering Obama's lackluster efforts on the war on terror. We should never be so foolish.

[Patrick Chewing]

The Allies committed ethnic cleansing, utterly ruined and raped much of German lands (that in particular was mostly by the soviets), and instituted long term propaganda campaigns that have irreparably brainwashed the German populace and actively encourages them to tear down and be ashamed of their identity.

It wasn't Bob and Ivan infiltrating german schools and churches in 1939 and occasionally raising their hands to say "Hey...this nazi stuff is kinda bad man. Let's stop."

I'd say that worked out pretty well then. One would be blind not to see the similarities today and the same opportunities to do so.

[DonDadda59]

Transfer governance? ISIS is not a governing body or a country. Jesus, man.

They control a huge territory spanning 2 countries. Once you take them out, who do you put in control of those regions? Assad? The Kurds?

When the Pershmerga (in a U.S. back operation) took control of Sinjar just this Friday, they claimed it for themselves whereas the Iraqi 'government' we put in power argues that it should be under their control. The PKK (a rival of the Peshmerga within the same country) came out of left field and claimed it for themselves as well. So in a small but key city in what used to be Iraq, you have 3 separate groups who are on the same side against ISIS fighting over ownership over one piece of land they took from them.

If/when ISIS is defeated and the U.S. leaves the fray... you'll see a prolonged Civil War between these groups and a new ISIS/Al Qaeda/Taliban/Mujihadeen like organization will rise up from the ashes... rinse and repeat... we've seen this happen time and time again.

You need to have a plan beyond boots on the ground or shock and awe.

Everyone knows ISIS grew out of Al-Qaeda, and grew because we withdrew forces too soon thanks to that clown in the oval office. Remember, ISIS just isn't killing Westerners, they are killing fellow Muslims as well. They are after a Caliphate. How can I explain this better? Umm, yeah, like the Lord of the Rings. One ring to rule them all. One caliphate/religion to rule them all.

How long do you think it would've taken to turn Iraq and Afghanistan into the democratic paradises of Cheney's dreams? 10 years? 20? 30? 100?

How long were we supposed to keep occupying these countries we shouldn't have been in to begin with?

The Nazi Army was bigger and far worse than ISIS, and they were defeated. You didn't see them sprout up again did you?

That was a very conventional war that was won in the traditional armies meet in a battlefield and fight over cities/territories model.

This is more akin to fighting the Viet Cong... or fighting the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan as we did for over a decade.

All I see you doing is shitting on everyone else's opinions and ideas just because they do not align with your frame of though, yet you continue to fail to provide a solution to the problem.

Boots on the ground.

There is no 'solution' beyond us ending our meddling in the region. ISIS is no more a threat to us than the home grown militias or random school or theater shooters we have in this country already.

Why are the Middle East's problems our problems?

[BasedTom]

I'd say that worked out pretty well then. One would be blind not to see the similarities today and the same opportunities to do so.

A political ideology which had only been around for a couple of decades is much easier to stamp out than a religion which has existed in the region for 1000+ years at the forefront of their identity there. If you go with the route of occupying and brainwashing them, then you have to be aware of the possibility of the fundamentalists bombing themselves and doing similar shit on the regular. Unless you take it a step further and create designated ghettos/internment camps and shit and make them second class citizens in their own land.

Which again, might be a viable strategy, but it certainly wouldn't be PC. But with the example of the fervor used to destroy fascism (which itself likely brings more merit to the world than durkas blowing themselves up), then exterminating that element might be worth it

[KevinNYC]

So here's the plan I've come up with in the last two hours.

What follows is not very pretty. But it may be the best option available in a crisis without good options.

We tell Putin, you get Assad to step down, perhaps with a nice little dacha on the Baltic Sea in exchange for not being hung.

Putin helps put in new regime that doesn't kill its own people.

In return we let Russia have Syria as its sphere of influence.

Then the U.S., Russia, Iran, and the rest of the grand coalition can get on with the urgent business of eliminating or at least drastically weakening ISIS.


I call it the Grand Bargain

[NumberSix]

Watching this with my lahm bi ajeen and tea like it ain't no thang.

[fiddy]

Tell it to the people he's barrel bombed.

Doesnt change the fact that the pointless fake arab spring is nothing more than a foreign intervention serving the interest of U.S.`allies interests in the region.

So here's the plan I've come up with in the last two hours.

What follows is not very pretty. But it may be the best option available in a crisis without good options.

We tell Putin, you get Assad to step down, perhaps with a nice little dacha on the Baltic Sea in exchange for not being hung.

Putin helps put in new regime that doesn't kill its own people.

In return we let Russia have Syria as its sphere of influence.

Then the U.S., Russia, Iran, and the rest of the grand coalition can get on with the urgent business of eliminating or at least drastically weakening ISIS.


I call it the Grand Bargain

Regime that doesnt kill its own people, eh? Sunni majority government would go after minorities, shias are minority, but even if they get to rule the country they would do the same, is Iraq all over again. Sunni ruled government wont probably let Russia use its military bases. What about the Turks? They want to install a pro-turkish party and start making corrupt deals. What about the Kurds? They get overlooked again

[I<3NBA]

You guys are quite dense on this site. Defeating ISIS is easy. You put boots on the ground and you kill them. Those that surrender are imprisoned for life.

The real battle is how to combat the ideology. And I've stated this a thousand times before. You must raid these mosques and you must imprison those with radical ties or promoting a radical agenda. You fill the airwaves and TV screens with Muslim reformers who's job is it to educate these barbarians that the bloodshed will never end, and it is a losing battle unless we decide to coexist with one another.

But just killing ISIS isn't the answer. We need to infiltrate, infiltrate, infiltrate. But this is only successful if and only if these cowardly moderate Muslims cooperate with the rest of the world.

put boots on the ground? yeah that worked the first time around

raid mosques? lol. you wanna create more of them? raiding mosques is the surest way to unite all the muslim world. what kind of moron thinks up this shit?

imprison radicals and oppress them? that's one way to create martrys out of these psychopaths.

srsly, where were you when history was being taught in schools?

you say the real battle is combating their ideology, but you do not realize that an ideological fight is not won by arms, force, or might, but by another idea. a stronger, more virulent, more attractive ideology.

what you want is a charismatic muslim who will preach a different kind of islam. you want this guy to go around converting the psychos into his religion. you want a new Jesus.

in fact, the second coming of Jesus is exactly who you want.

[step_back]

Part of what makes Syria such a difficult war to combat is it's a proxy war. The West has more enemies than just ISIS in Syria, however Saudi Arabia is backing one the organizations who are considered a threat. SA is an ally to the West.

There is no simple and easy answer to sorting out the problems in Syria regardless of whether you're on the left or right.