Today's drive-and-kick NBA style of play

[Zach LaVine]

Warriors winning 73 games has 3ball shook

Meltdown. He can't even watch the games anymore.

[3ball]

More players who are now considered "power forwards" can stretch out and [COLOR="Red"]hit mid range[/COLOR] to three point shots.

Players at all positions in previous eras were FAR better midrange shooters - it isn't remotely close.

In today's game, midrange shots are considered the toughest shots and are avoided.

Otoh, the vast majority of points in previous eras came from midrange - midrange was the STANDARD in previous eras, like 3-pointers are now.

More players who are now considered "power forwards" can stretch out and [COLOR="Red"]hit three point shots[/COLOR].

But today's players are less adept at creating their own shot and scoring ON defenders.

Today's spacing has made ball movement easier and more effective, so players aren't expected to take their man as a standard anymore - scoring ON defenders is avoided when possible, because ball movement can yield an open shot easier than the unspaced courts of previous eras.. Essentially, the easier ball movement enabled by today's spacing allows players to PLAY-FINISH more than previous eras.

But back in the day, players were expected to have the skill necessary to take their man and score ON defenders as a STANDARD... That's why you had ridiculously skilled 2-point scorers back then that you don't see today, such as Dantley, Bird, King, English, Vandeweghe, etc - those guys had to take their man nearly EVERY PLAY, which required superior skill than today's 3-and-D robots that just finish plays/catch-and-shoot and don't take their man that often.

I think you're seeing a transition from cookie cutter positions into more versatile personnel.

3-point ability doesn't make a player more versatile if it comes at the expense of posting up (which today's player can't do), or scoring from 2-point range in a wide variety of ways.

2-pointers are scored in far more WAYS and with far more TYPES of shots than 3-pointers... 3-pointers are mostly catch-and-shoot jumpshots.

There's nothing more cookie cutter than that - and it certainly doesn't make a player more versatile, especially if it comes at the expense of the more diverse 2-pointer skill sets and shot types.

It's not as simple as saying you drive and kick to abunch of guys standing around the three point line.

You've missed the point of the thread, which is to say that today's player can get a 3-point look MUCH EASIER than previous eras.

Today's drive-and-kick format requires multiple shooters behind the 3-point line on every possession to kick the ball out to.. This offensive setup didn't exist in previous eras because teams didn't have enough 3-point-shooting personnel to position multiple shooters behind the line.

Accordingly, if any player from today were transported back to the 80's, they wouldn't have any 3-point shooting teammates to enable drive-and-kick, so they'd have to run off screens for all their 3-point looks just like any other 3-point shooter back then.
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[StephHamann]

3ball is back bitches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYeDsa4Tw0c

[3ball]

the mods on this site are a bunch of ******s and losers whose peak in life is moderating an ignorant web site.

where have I made this thread before OVER AND OVER?

it's lies - which proves that the mods are simply annoyed at my truth bombs about today's game

indeed, the massive driving and passing lanes leads to a predictable game of mostly catch-and-shoot jumpers or open layups - a weaker, diluted game than previous eras, but dumb people are blinded by the 3ball... It's akin to little kids being impressed with a balloon.

[90sgoat]

It's akin to little kids being impressed with a balloon.

[sdot_thadon]

It's because you can't see the forest for the trees man. Point blank you don't watch today's game so you come into the discussion with only half the story. Once I realized you didn't even watch the game, before you admitted it even I couldnt take your words seriously. Ignorance is bliss though. Players have the skills relevant to today's game, and that said have more diverse skillsets overall you could argue. Guy's with previous eras skillset are a longer shot to make the league. Mid range jumpers were never considered the the toughest shots to create either, they were mathematically proven to be the least efficient due to the rise of the 3 point shot. Defensive evolution made those particular shots not as valuable as past years. This entire shitty debate can be boiled down to your favorite era not having the 3 as a common tool and this era that you don't watch having a surplus. In other words you don't know what the hell you're talking about half the time.

Oh and to be honest the mods here did what was best for you, the same thing pretty much every other forum does to you. No surprise. Sometimes you need a break. Now behave.

[3ball]

blah, blah, blah

unlike me, you never back up anything you say with stats or proof of any kind.

it's just pure bullshit stream of consciousness to counter my truth bombs.

keep enjoying those balloons kid

[ralph_i_el]

Players at all positions in previous eras were FAR better midrange shooters - it isn't remotely close.

In today's game, midrange shots are considered the toughest shots and are avoided.

Otoh, the vast majority of points in previous eras came from midrange - midrange was the STANDARD in previous eras, like 3-pointers are now.



But today's players are less adept at creating their own shot and scoring ON defenders.

Today's spacing has made ball movement easier and more effective, so players aren't expected to take their man as a standard anymore - scoring ON defenders is avoided when possible, because ball movement can yield an open shot easier than the unspaced courts of previous eras.. Essentially, the easier ball movement enabled by today's spacing allows players to PLAY-FINISH more than previous eras.

But back in the day, players were expected to have the skill necessary to take their man and score ON defenders as a STANDARD... That's why you had ridiculously skilled 2-point scorers back then that you don't see today, such as Dantley, Bird, King, English, Vandeweghe, etc - those guys had to take their man nearly EVERY PLAY, which required superior skill than today's 3-and-D robots that just finish plays/catch-and-shoot and don't take their man that often.



3-point ability doesn't make a player more versatile if it comes at the expense of posting up (which today's player can't do), or scoring from 2-point range in a wide variety of ways.

2-pointers are scored in far more WAYS and with far more TYPES of shots than 3-pointers... 3-pointers are mostly catch-and-shoot jumpshots.

There's nothing more cookie cutter than that - and it certainly doesn't make a player more versatile, especially if it comes at the expense of the more diverse 2-pointer skill sets and shot types.



You've missed the point of the thread, which is to say that today's player can get a 3-point look MUCH EASIER than previous eras.

Today's drive-and-kick format requires multiple shooters behind the 3-point line on every possession to kick the ball out to.. This offensive setup didn't exist in previous eras because teams didn't have enough 3-point-shooting personnel to position multiple shooters behind the line.

Accordingly, if any player from today were transported back to the 80's, they wouldn't have any 3-point shooting teammates to enable drive-and-kick, so they'd have to run off screens for all their 3-point looks just like any other 3-point shooter back then.
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I agree with this. Teams today play a more regimented system of basketball, with less room for individual flair. Still, one area that top perimeter players excellent at today is ball movement and bball IQ. Ridiculously skilled scorers are not as valuable today if they can't play good team basketball.

I think that If you continue to stop attaching MJ love to good posts like these, we'll all have better discourse.

[3ball]

I agree with this. Teams today play a more regimented system of basketball, with less room for individual flair.

Still, one area that top perimeter players excellent at today is ball movement and [COLOR="Red"]bball IQ[/COLOR]. Ridiculously skilled scorers are not as valuable today if they can't play good team basketball.

It's too bad we can't see how good their IQ would be without their teammates shooting 3-pointers to space out the entire floor for them.

Without the 3-point shooting teammates needed to create today's wide open game, which of today's players would still have the passing skill to thread needles consistently like the gif above?

That level of passing and threaded needles isn't needed in today's wide open, spaced-out game..

Nonetheless, every era requires good hoops IQ of the brand of basketball played at the time.
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[Horatio33]

Game has moved on from ISO after ISO after ISO to more of a team game, where positions are becoming less defined, and players are more skilled instead of using brute force.

[Wa88iors]

Have any pundits pointed out that today's drive-and-kick format makes it easier for players to get 3-point looks?

Today's drive-and-kick format requires multiple shooters behind the 3-point line on every possession to kick the ball out to.. This offensive setup didn't exist in previous eras because teams didn't have enough 3-point-shooting personnel to position multiple shooters behind the line.

Accordingly, 3-pointer shooters like Reggie and Bird had to run off screens to get 3-point looks - they didn't have 3-point shooting teammates to enable drive-and-kick so they could stand and wait for an easy kickout like today's 3-point shooter enjoys..

Has this EVER been pointed out by the professional hoops pundits on TV?... Or do they just steal money by comparing previous eras to today's era like it's apples and apples?

Yes, Jason Temine and Eddie Johnson of NBA Today have talked about this Ad Nauseaum starting last year. Basically saying the same thing. The game has changed from driving inside with big's , getting the "and 1", to a smaller, speedier line up to combat the bigs ability to block shots inside. The older generation that is playing in this league now, learned to defend the drive in the paint, too slow to pursue the kick out pass from teams like the Warrior's deadly catch and shoot small lineup.

on
Sirius XM radio

[Hey Yo]

The above shows MJ forcing his way to the basket only to get bailed out by King, due to Ewing's great defense.

[3ball]

Game has moved on from ISO after ISO after ISO to more of a team game

Today's game is now screen-roll after screen-roll, which is less exciting then seeing a player use creativity to take his man WITHOUT a screen.

And today's player isolates a ton - it's statistical fact that Harden and Lebron isolate on 20-25% of their possessions

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/iso...sive&sort=Time


Then they use screen-roll for another 25%.. They literally isolate or use screen-roll for over half their possessions:

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/bal...sive&sort=Poss

[3ball]

Yes, Jason Temine and Eddie Johnson of NBA Today have talked about this Ad Nauseaum starting last year. Basically saying the same thing. The game has changed from driving inside with big's , getting the "and 1", to a smaller, speedier line up to combat the bigs ability to block shots inside. The older generation that is playing in this league now, learned to defend the drive in the paint, too slow to pursue the kick out pass from teams like the Warrior's deadly catch and shoot small lineup.

on
Sirius XM radio

Thanks for this response... I was genuinely curious.

And it's no surprise that it was on the NON-mainstream Sirius.

No way the mainstream outlets would have that kind of CORRECT, nuanced analysis.

[CuterThanRubio]

My goodness, this gif is a perfect illustration of why I prefer modern basketball.

The utter disregard of positional awareness is nauseating!

First, check out #1 on the perimeter, totally unprepared to move laterally and a ghost screen is enough to cause him to give up on the play..

Second, what the hell is that white guy doing in the paint, he shifts one way for no reason and then decides to jump out of the way entirely, great 90s interior defense on display!

#21 was guarding air

#34 was standing around until the ball was being laid up

Despicable!