Today's drive-and-kick NBA style of play

[Da_Realist]

Well, you admitted you don't watch bball today which shocks me. Where is your love for the game?

I don't watch either except for big games like Spurs/Warriors. There are no bully teams anymore. It's all finesse. There is no decent big man in the league and no decent post presence. The best big man in the league is 40 years old! There is no counter to small ball. No way for a team to slow anything down so GSW can score 80 points in a half with no problem. It's like flag football.

[Akhenaten]

got away with a travel here

[Duffy Pratt]

Every three Bird ever made was wide open.

Just because 3ball says lots of things that are false is no reason to counter with stuff that's equally false.

http://youtu.be/s-Hf-3XvAyk

[Jasper]

Have any pundits pointed out that today's drive-and-kick format makes it easier for players to get 3-point looks?

Today's drive-and-kick format requires multiple shooters behind the 3-point line on every possession to kick the ball out to.. This offensive setup didn't exist in previous eras because teams didn't have enough 3-point-shooting personnel to position multiple shooters behind the line.

Accordingly, 3-pointer shooters like Reggie and Bird had to run off screens to get 3-point looks - they didn't have 3-point shooting teammates to enable drive-and-kick so they could stand and wait for an easy kickout like today's 3-point shooter enjoys..

Has this EVER been pointed out by the professional hoops pundits on TV?... Or do they just steal money by comparing previous eras to today's era like it's apples and apples?

I watched the 70s , 80s , 90s ball - you obviously did not.
Nothing new , what has happened is more perimeter ball rotation , to get the open look, for spot up j's and slashing to hoop.
Some of the current bball goes back to Al MCquire Marquette warriors spread in college.

[Duffy Pratt]

None of those Bird videos look ANYTHING like today's spaced-out setup that is optimally designed to generate 3-point looks.

So what? None of them show Bird running off a bunch of screens to get open for a three. That was A large part of Reggie Millers game, but not so much a part of Birds.

You've admitted that you don't watch now. What you said about Bird casts doubt on whether you ever watched. I wasn't saying the that Bird got his three point looks from today's spacing schemes. That's not how the Celtics played. Nor did they get a lot from passes from the post (except when Bird was posting up). You could probably count on one hand the number of times that McHale passed up a post up to get someone a three. The Rockets under Rudy T, however, ran a kick out offense that depended on spacing.

[CuterThanRubio]

I already shut this thread down, but I'm going to do even more damage!

Less than a minute into that video and I find the first three, and GUESS WHAT, HE'S WIDE OPEN AGAIN LOL.

The majority of Bird's attempts from outside were unguarded, perimeter defense in the 80s was SOFT and CARELESS, the only place that was consistently contested was the paint, and that is easy to do when you can pack the whole team inside.

[3ball]

The drive and kick always existed. Just in the past, guys spotted up closer to the basket, without the huge emphasis on the 3.

But let's not act like it's some new thing.

As always, you misread my post - I never said the drive and kick was new - but driving and kicking for 3-pointers (usually via screen-roll) wasn't common or the staple of ANY team's offense until about 10 years ago.. Consequently, good 3-point shooters in the 80's and 90's didn't benefit from offenses that were based on their strength like today's 3-point shooters do.

Today's drive-and-kick for 3-pointers requires multiple shooters behind the line to maximize kickout targets and opportunity to swing the ball around.. Previous eras didn't have enough 3-point shooting personnel to position multiple shooters behind the line, so they could only drive-and-kick for 2-pointers, which was far less efficient (yields lower PPP) than driving and kicking for 3-pointers.. The inefficiency of driving and kicking for 2-pointers is why post-ups were the staple of offenses back then, not drive-and-kick.

But once teams had sufficient 3-point shooting personnel to position multiple shooters behind the line, and once the NBA made penetration easier via the hand-check ban, driving-and-kicking for 3-pointers became viable and a more efficient option than posting up - again, this happened about 10 years ago and 3-point shooters have benefited from the strategic focus to get them easier looks.

And welcome back.

The inefficiency of driving and kicking for 2-pointers demonstrates that the decline in post-ups was due to higher efficiency drive-and-kick made possible by 3-pointers, not defensive tactics.. In the absence of 3-pointers (where teams must drive-and-kick for 2-pointers like previous eras), no amount of defensive strategy could prevent post-ups from supplanting drive-and-kick.

Since post-ups, mid-range, off-ball and isolations were the only things left in the 80's without the 3-pointers needed to make drive-and-kick worthwhile, we can say with certainty that many of today's elite players would be lesser players back then - their 3-and-D skill sets exclude elite ability in any of the aforementioned areas.

But back to the point of the thread - since screen-roll/drive-and-kick is now the staple of every team's offense, it's much easier for today's player to obtain 3-point looks - guys like Ibaka and Bosh are considered 3-point snipers just by standing there and waiting for kickouts, while Curry gets a much larger proportion of 3-point looks via kickout than Reggie Miller or Bird ever did..