The future of the coal industry

[Hawker]

Let's not act like fossil fuels are killing it in some free market. They have a shit ton of subsidies, they have incredible lobbyists, and as a bonus, they completely destroy the environment in the process.

Green energy needs the same favorable environment to develop. I wouldn't be surprised if shitholes like Jackson, Hazard, London, etc. could make more money as tourist attractions and with wind farms/biofuel plantations if they cleaned up those disgusting hell holes and got rid of the surface mines.

Do coal companies get subsidies or tax breaks to recover expenses like every other business and american in the country?

Oil and gas companies receive no subsidies from the government.

[DeuceWallaces]

Do coal companies get subsidies or tax breaks to recover expenses like every other business and american in the country?

Oil and gas companies receive no subsidies from the government.

Lol, you are misinformed.

[Hawker]

Lol, you are misinformed.

Nah.

Tax breaks and writing off expenses =/= subsidy.

[Velocirap31]

Do coal companies get subsidies or tax breaks to recover expenses like every other business and american in the country?

Oil and gas companies receive no subsidies from the government.

They definitely get tax breaks and grants, but not to the extent of green energy. Hell, Ontario announced that they're giving a $14,000 grant to anyone who buys an electric car now, out of the tax coffers. I should have pre-ordered a Model 3. Our premier is an inept carpet muncher though, so no one is surprised.

[ALBballer]

Even tho I tend to lean as a libertarian I am ok with the idea of the government incentivizing clean energy and disincentivizing fossil fuels.

businesses primary goal is to maximize profit even if it is at the expense of our habitat. I don't think the free market especially one that relies heavily on short term profits care much for the long term environmental effects.

[JtotheIzzo]

Coal needs to be phased out.

[DeuceWallaces]

Nah.

Tax breaks and writing off expenses =/= subsidy.

Yes they are, and it goes well beyond that. Maybe you should try out this thing called Google.

[jongib369]

My great grandfather was a coal miner in Kentucky, couldnt imagine doing that job

[UK2K]

Well Obama is horrific with foreign policy so it's not terribly shocking. I won't lie I'm surprised you agree that coal should die.


It's such a shame no one came up with a better name for Nuclear energy. No one wants to use it cause MUUUUUUH nukes it must be so dangerous.

It's dirty and dangerous and while I'd like to see the country as a whole transition to more renewable resources, the technology isn't there yet.

Until we can replicate the cheap cost of coal consumption with the cheap cost of solar energy consumption, we need to stick to coal.

But simply wanting to ruin coal (as Hillary has admitted wanting to do several times) because you want to force the hand of the free market has destroyed the coal producing states.

[UK2K]

My great grandfather was a coal miner in Kentucky, couldnt imagine doing that job

As was my whole family until my father.

[KyrieTheFuture]

It's dirty and dangerous and while I'd like to see the country as a whole transition to more renewable resources, the technology isn't there yet.

Until we can replicate the cheap cost of coal consumption with the cheap cost of solar energy consumption, we need to stick to coal.

But simply wanting to ruin coal (as Hillary has admitted wanting to do several times) because you want to force the hand of the free market has destroyed the coal producing states.

They weren't gonna vote for her anyway so why care? (Her mentality not mine)

[bladefd]

Let's not act like fossil fuels are killing it in some free market. They have a shit ton of subsidies, they have incredible lobbyists, and as a bonus, they completely destroy the environment in the process.

Coal/oil subsidies/taxbreaks need to go away completely across the board. We should have been going away from coal a decade ago. Can't believe it is 2016, and we are still discussing this..

Only people that want coal to stay are uninformed fools like UK2K that have no grasp of the dangers of coal.

[UK2K]

Coal/oil subsidies/taxbreaks need to go away completely across the board. We should have been going away from coal a decade ago. Can't believe it is 2016, and we are still discussing this..

Only people that want coal to stay are uninformed fools like UK2K that have no grasp of the dangers of coal.

You obviously haven't read the whole thread....

Your stupidity is showing through again. May want to cover that up.

Well Obama is horrific with foreign policy so it's not terribly shocking. I won't lie I'm surprised you agree that coal should die.

It's dirty and dangerous and while I'd like to see the country as a whole transition to more renewable resources, the technology isn't there yet.

Go play in traffic dumbass.

[bladefd]

I'm not looking for a fight so lets break your whole argument down.

It's dirty and dangerous and while I'd like to see the country as a whole transition to more renewable resources, the technology isn't there yet.

Until we can replicate the cheap cost of coal consumption with the cheap cost of solar energy consumption, we need to stick to coal.

1) How is the technology not there yet? We have solar, nuclear, and wind/hydro/geothermal for certain areas. If each house had solar panel, the cost per panel in bulk would drop

2) People forget the other indirect costs of coal, such as damage to lungs, skin, pulmonary, carcinogenic, environment. Human health damage is not cheap to treat especially if you get something like lung cancer. What about the cost of pollution and water contamination? You don't just look at the electric bill at the end of the month but the totality of the life cycle. You don't have to worry about any of these extra external costs with solar, wind, hydro or even nuclear. Just build nuclear away from certain regions like Los Angeles, gulf of mexico, etc.

[UK2K]

I'm not looking for a fight so lets break your whole argument down.

Which is why you immediately started calling me names, yeah?

1) How is the technology not there yet? We have solar, nuclear, and wind/hydro/geothermal for certain areas. If each house had solar panel, the cost per panel in bulk would drop

True, but not every house can do that. Even if the panel was $1000, you will need 10-12 just to keep your house running, and that's assuming it's sunny. How are those solar panels going to work out in Seattle? Or anywhere in the north? Who is paying for the panels? The installation? The maintenance and repair? Obama's plan was to destroy coal and he willingly admitted energy costs would go up, which he was cool with, to try and force us into renewable energy.

Instead, we shut down coal mines across the country, and then just imported more. Makes sense. Why are we importing coal if everything else is so readily available and easy to access? Maybe because it's not.

2) People forget the other indirect costs of coal, such as damage to lungs, skin, pulmonary, carcinogenic, environment. Human health damage is not cheap to treat especially if you get something like lung cancer. What about the cost of pollution and water contamination? You don't just look at the electric bill at the end of the month but the totality of the life cycle. You don't have to worry about any of these extra external costs with solar, wind, hydro or even nuclear. Just build nuclear away from certain regions like Los Angeles, gulf of mexico, etc.

Those wind turbines out west, how many rare birds have they killed? The dams we built, how many ecosystems did we destroy?

Yeah nuclear energy is awesome until Japan happens. You can build a nuclear plant in the middle of ****ing nowhere and if it malfunctions, it will affect areas hundreds of miles away.

The truth is, that shit is too expensive because we haven't perfected it yet. Why aren't everyone driving around electric cars? You'd think being so concerned about the environment, the whole administration would be driving one. Or like those people who flew from Seattle to DC to protest the US' carbon footprint... they sound like a smart bunch.

Everyone isn't driving around in electric cars because they suck ass, and because they're expensive. Until they make a Dodge 2500 with an electric motor for the same price as they make one now with a gas motor, the technology is too expensive.