Kyrie Irving leading the 2016 finals in scoring

[stalkerforlife]

Kyrie is a horrible team player though and nearly all the scoring the he does is from iso ball. For Kyrie to maximize himself he has to minimize the team. And I don't even like Lebron.

This bitch is so ashamed of his hero right now.

[Milbuck]

This bitch is so ashamed of his hero right now.

[knicksman]

This bitch is so ashamed of his hero right now.

Time to quit ish smoke

[Hey Yo]

Kyrie has out played Curry in every game this series minus last night and Kyrie was pretty damn good himself last night too.

Love Curry but Kyrie is poised to be one of the leagues best scorers. 23 years old and absolutely holding his own against the unanimous MVP.

But he was 3-9 in the 4th quarter last night and 1 of those FG's was a layup with 31 seconds left....when the game was over.

Yet you still see it as a pretty damn good game by Kyrie?

[warriorfan]

This bitch is so ashamed of his hero right now.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie is a horrible team player though and nearly all the scoring the he does is from iso ball. For Kyrie to maximize himself he has to minimize the team. And I don't even like Lebron.

...which was clearly the case when he was going insane in Game 3 and his offensive explosion almost single-handidly put the Warriors in a 20+ point hole right off the bat.

And, that's happened countless other times this playoffs. The guy is averaging 25 points per game on 58% TS with a three-to-one assist to turnover ratio. And, the Cavs have had an incredible offense in these playoffs. They just happen to be playing an incredible defensive team in the Finals that matchup perfectly... and he's still one of the reasons the offense is able to stay afloat.

It's no coincidence that Lue plays him as many minutes as he does. The Cavs' offense has looked relatively horrible with him on the bench in these Finals. Not OK. Not mediocre... horrible. And, that's usually the bench unit with LeBron on the court.

[TheMarkMadsen]

But he was 3-9 in the 4th quarter last night and 1 of those FG's was a layup with 31 seconds left....when the game was over.

Yet you still see it as a pretty damn good game by Kyrie?

Uhh yeah?

He was the only reason it wasn't a complete blowout by halftime. He was the only cavs who was playing aggressively, attacking and looking for his shot.

He dropped 32 points & looked like an absolute star for most of the game.

Would his performance have been better if he would have hit some uncontested lay ups at the end of the game when the team needed threes?

[Hey Yo]

Uhh yeah?

He was the only reason it wasn't a complete blowout by halftime. He was the only cavs who was playing aggressively, attacking and looking for his shot.

He dropped 32 points & looked like an absolute star for most of the game.

Would his performance have been better if he would have hit some uncontested lay ups at the end of the game when the team needed threes?

But the trend since the 2011 Finals is "what you do in the 4th quarter trumps anything done in the first 3 quarters if the game is close"......correct?

You could lead the team in scoring BUT.....if you have a shitty 4th quarter and the team loses......then you had a shitty game. That's the way it's been defined since the end of the 2011 Finals....correct??

Or does it only apply to certain players??

His 3rd FG of the quarter was an uncontested layup with 31 seconds left.

[jlip]

Did LeBron look like he was doing a great job being the "aggressor" last night? Literally the only reason the Cavs were in the game was Kyrie Irving. And, it wasn't just isolation. He was hitting spot-up threes. He even roasted Curry in the post a few times.

For the sake of space, I didn't copy the entire post. You're right. Lebron was not the aggressor last night. That is my point. There were several plays where he actually got into the paint, was open, and passed the ball. I remember a play in the 4th quarter with something like 6-7 minutes left in the game, and it was a six point game. Lebron got into the paint, and could have scored over whoever was in front of him, but he passed it out to someone for a three pointer, and they missed. i was screaming, "Shoot the ball, Lebron!" Right after that GSW shot a three pointer and went up nine points. Lebron was refusing to be aggressive.

Also, my disapproval of Kyrie's game, is not merely about game 4 or just this series. I know the Warriors are making a case for the GOAT team, and I never expected the Cavs to beat them. That's not really my concern, but I still stand by what I said about Kyrie's game. It is great for the individual, but overall, it is not best for the team, in my opinion. When your game is focused primarily on you "getting yours" while everyone stands and watches, even if you score 40, that usually doesn't bode well for the team. It's one thing to get hot or in a zone. It's another for that to be your default MO as a player. I've seen Irving, too many times, neglect simple passes on a pick and roll that Delly or definitely Lebron would have made that would have led to an easier basket. Also watching him dribble 8 seconds off the clock after he's crossed halfcourt ,without making one pass, then shooting is frustrating to me. It's almost as frustrating as watching Lebron pass when he's open. My position on Irving's game is not an anomaly, as Coach Lue has alluded to it recently as well as his teammates this season.

[jlip]

You only agree with him because your head is shoved directly up LeBron's ass. Goofy bastard

Most of what that guy said is inaccurate anyway, and the sample he's using is WAY small to make such a broad and absurd conclusion. LeBron doesn't NEED to monopolize the ball every possession to score just for Cleveland to be considered "better". That's sub-optimal basketball at best ie. the 2009 and 2010 Cavs.

He can start by playing better defense. Hitting jumpers. Or even just finding guys without turning the ball over like a maniac.

Evidently my post went way over your head if somehow you got, "LeBron monopolizing the ball every possession to score just for Cleveland to be considered "better". out of it. At no point in my post did I even remotely imply that Lebron "monopolizing the ball on every possession" was a solution. I clearly stated that Lebron should look to be the lead aggressor. The offense should run through him, and he should look for his shot more, while Kyrie should look to pass more. In no sensible world does, being the aggressor/ leading scorer naturally translate to monopolizing the ball on every possession, but somehow you managed to make that conflation.

[RedBlackAttack]

Also, my disapproval of Kyrie's game, is not merely about game 4 or just this series. I know the Warriors are making a case for the GOAT team, and I never expected the Cavs to beat them. That's not really my concern, but I still stand by what I said about Kyrie's game. It is great for the individual, but overall, it is not best for the team, in my opinion. When your game is focused primarily on you "getting yours" while everyone stands and watches, even if you score 40, that usually doesn't bode well for the team. It's one thing to get hot or in a zone. It's another for that to be your default MO as a player. I've seen Irving, too many times, neglect simple passes on a pick and roll that Delly or definitely Lebron would have made that would have led to an easier basket. Also watching him dribble 8 seconds off the clock after he's crossed halfcourt ,without making one pass, then shooting is frustrating to me. It's almost as frustrating as watching Lebron pass when he's open. My position on Irving's game is not an anomaly, as Coach Lue has alluded to it recently as well as his teammates this season.

I'd respond to this critique a couple of ways. First, you have to remember that he just turned 24 and is obviously still growing as a player. He can score from anywhere on the court and, in these playoffs in particular, has shown promise off-the-ball and even posting up. He's also one hell of a longrange shooter, be it off-the-dribble or spotting up. Those traits alone make him more than just an "ISO specialist" as some people like to call him.

His ability to use his savant-like dribbling skills to get teammates better shots has been a work in progress... but it is progressing. You still have the occasional lost possession where he dribbles around for 15 seconds and hoists a difficult shot, but they've been far fewer this year, especially in these playoffs. He is only committing, like, 2 turnovers a game which is amazing given the way he handles the basketball. Irving has to isolate more against the Warriors specifically out of necessity because the Cavs' whole offense has frankly been shut down by an awesome defensive team that matches up perfectly. But, watch the Toronto series... or Atlanta... or Detroit. Say what you will about the East, but those are not poor defensive teams and he roasted all of them in a variety of ways.

It's no mistake that the Cavs' starting lineup of Irving-Smith-James-Love-Thompson has an offensive rating of 120.4 in these playoffs, which is just mind-boggling. You don't get to numbers like that by having an "team offense killer" on the floor. That figure out-ranks any of the most frequently used lineups of GS, OKC, SAS or anyone else.

http://stats.nba.com/league/lineups/...nType=Playoffs


There is no denying that Kyrie formed some bad habits in his first few years in the league. But, diagnose the situation and look at the (relatively obvious) improvements. He's now had four head coaches in his near five-year NBA career. That includes his first three years spent under the watchful eyes of either Byron Scott (2 years) or Mike Brown (3rd season). Those guys aren't exactly innovative offensive minds or the kinds of guys you'd want showing a young, talented offensive player how to adapt to a complex system.

Then, think about where players like Steph Curry were in their growth as players at age 23. He was barely logging 28 minutes a game on a horrible team before being injured just 25 games into the season. People seem to want Kyrie Irving to be a finished product before he has had a chance to grow with something even resembling a healthy offensive team and/or competent coaching staff.

I can't even imagine what Pop could do with a player as offensively versatile as Kyrie Irving.

[TheMarkMadsen]

But the trend since the 2011 Finals is "what you do in the 4th quarter trumps anything done in the first 3 quarters if the game is close"......correct?

You could lead the team in scoring BUT.....if you have a shitty 4th quarter and the team loses......then you had a shitty game. That's the way it's been defined since the end of the 2011 Finals....correct??

Or does it only apply to certain players??

His 3rd FG of the quarter was an uncontested layup with 31 seconds left.

What the hell are you talking about?

Kyrie has had b2b 30pt games.. Lebron didn't have a single 30 point game in the 2011 finals... the past two games from Kyrie have been better than anything Lebron did in the 2011 finals, there is no comparison to be made here.

Lebron gets shitted on for the 2011 finals not just because of his piss poor play in the 4th, but for scoring 8 points in a game and having his ppg drop by 10ppg from the regular season to the finals.. What are you missing here?

You said that Kyrie had 3 field goals in the 4th quarter last night and you're comparing it to Lebron who had 5 field goals in the 4th quarter through the first 5 games of the 2011 finals.

Man you are dense.

[FireDavidKahn]

Yes, he does suck

Tom HaberstrohVerified account
‏@tomhaberstroh
Isolations in this series (thanks @haralabob):
Kyrie Irving - 18 points on 31 isos (0.58/iso)
Steph Curry - 24 points on 19 isos (1.26/iso)

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]What the hell are you talking about?

Kyrie has had b2b 30pt games.. Lebron didn't have a single 30 point game in the 2011 finals... the past two games from Kyrie have been better than anything Lebron did in the 2011 finals, there is no comparison to be made here.

We're not talking about game 3....when the Cavs won. you specifically said how great of game Kyie had last night.

Lebron gets shitted on for the 2011 finals not just because of his piss poor play in the 4th, but for scoring 8 points in a game and having his ppg drop by 10ppg from the regular season to the finals.. What are you missing here?

I'm missing the part where Kyrie "allegedly" choked last night because he shit to bed in the 4th quarter. Isn't that how it goes if the team loses a close game?

You said that Kyrie had 3 field goals in the 4th quarter last night and you're comparing it to Lebron who had 5 field goals in the 4th quarter through the first 5 games of the 2011 finals.

I'm comparing to players who have had bad 4th quarters. You saying Kyrie played great last night, even though he was 2-8 before the layup with 31 seconds left.... when the Cavs were up by 2 when the 4th started.

You ask why the layups from James instead of 3's. I point out Kyrie had a layup also in the closing moments and...........crickets.

Your bias is clearly showing.

[eliteballer]

A PG who has ZERO court vision.

He's just an undersized ballhogging SG who doesn't make teammates better.

OP doesn't understand the game..