How jordan did with a ''lebron type'' supporting cast

[TheWinningFam]

Jordan for most of his career had the superior supporting cast and head coach, this lead to him winning 6 titles in a weak expansion era

Otoh when given a lebron like supporting cast he didn't do so well.

Jordan was drafted to the bulls who went 27-55 the previous year..
In jordan's rookie year the team went 35-47 just an 8 game improvement and managed to make the playoffs.

Jordan attempting to enforce Jordan ball REGRESSED even more the second year going 30-52 but because of such a weak east was able to STILL make the playoffs..

In his 3rd year they went 40-42 and lost AGIAN in the first round.. with superior supporting cast in paxson and oakley..

otoh Lebron was drafted to a team that went 17-65 the previous year.. but it all changed from there...

lebron turned a 17-65 team into a 35-47 team his rookie year, thats a 16 win difference DOUBLE of ordan's 8 win improvment

In year 2 Lebron enforced his brand of basketball and improved the team even MORE winning this time 42-40 but failed to make the playoffs due to a strong east at the time..

In lebron's third year he FINALLY broke through winning 50 games and getting his team to the playsoff and guess what? he WON his first playoff series something ordan just couldn't do..

Just to put things into perspective, by lebron's fourth year he was in the FINALS despite having a weaker supporting cast AND HARDER competition.
Jordan? still losing in the playoffs to the pistons WITH pippen..

[Dragonyeuw]

Jordan attempting to enforce Jordan ball REGRESSED even more the second year going 30-52 but because of such a weak east was able to STILL make the playoffs..

You realize that Jordan missed 64 games this year, right? Of course you do.


Fcuking hell this forum has turned to complete shit the last few years.

[TheWinningFam]

You realize that Jordan missed 64 games this year, right? Of course you do.


Fcuking hell this forum has turned to complete shit the last few years.

Jordan missing 64 games his sophmore year and the team only losing 5 more games that year SHOWS that jordan has ALWAYS had the better supporting cast than lebron.. If lebron had suffered an injury like that that year, the cavs would have likely only won 15-13 games.

[Doranku]

otoh? The only other person that uses that acronym is 3ball.

Poor guy melted down so hard he created an alter ego to cope with LeBron's greatness.

[Dragonyeuw]

Jordan missing 64 games his sophmore year and the team only losing 5 more games that year SHOWS that jordan has ALWAYS had the better supporting cast than lebron.. If lebron had suffered an injury like that that year, the cavs would have likely only won 15-13 games.

The Bulls would have won more than 30 games if MJ had played more than 18 games you inbred c*nt.

[TheWinningFam]

The Bulls would have won more than 30 games if MJ had played more than 18 games you inbred c*nt.

Missing the point and resorting to ad homs.

If you take lebron out for 64 games that cavs team isn't winning more than 20

otoh, You take jordan out for 64 games and that team wins 30 only 5 less than when he played a full season. ... Let that sink in

[NBAGOAT]

Jordan missing 64 games his sophmore year and the team only losing 5 more games that year SHOWS that jordan has ALWAYS had the better supporting cast than lebron.. If lebron had suffered an injury like that that year, the cavs would have likely only won 15-13 games.

bad argument, Bulls could've definitely won 40+ with Jordan. It was the only Bulls team with Woolridge and Oakley which is honestly not that terrible.

[TheWinningFam]

bad argument, Bulls could've definitely won 40+ with Jordan. It was the only Bulls team with Woolridge and Oakley which is honestly not that terrible.

That's the exact point.

Jordan since his rookie year has had the superior supporting cast to lebron yet lebron has done more with less than jordan.

[hateraid]

Missing the point and resorting to ad homs.

If you take lebron out for 64 games that cavs team isn't winning more than 20

otoh, You take jordan out for 64 games and that team wins 30 only 5 less than when he played a full season. ... Let that sink in

Of course the latter is going to be argued. Jordan stans belive they would win 20 more games if he was there, even though that was far fetch. They fail too see the significance of only losing 5 games more in his absence.

Just like they fail to see the playoff calibre team the Bulls were when Jordan retired his first run. Bulls made the playoff and almost made the semis if it weren't for a bad call in a game 7. They'll flip that argument by claiming they still didn't win a championship.

[NBAGOAT]

That's the exact point.

Jordan since his rookie year has had the superior supporting cast to lebron yet lebron has done more with less than jordan.

the bad argument is you saying the Bulls only got worse by 5 wins without Jordan without looking at other factors(same for 1994). Anyway that was only for a year, having just Oakley or Woolridge is not good.

[TheWinningFam]

the bad argument is you saying the Bulls only got worse by 5 wins without Jordan without looking at other factors(same for 1994). Anyway that was only for a year, having just Oakley or Woolridge is not good.

Jordan had 2 other good supporting cast members in oakley and woolride,

otoh lebron at best had Big Z

Before lebron joined that team went 17-65

Jordan's went 25-57

If jordan made such a bigger impact than lebron why did his team only lose 5 more games in his absence? while lebron's team WON 16 more games in his presence?

[Gileraracer]

6 >>>>> 3

[3ball]

Lebron would win the same way with Jordan's supporting cast

[COLOR="Red"]Ask yourself the following question: could Lebron make up the scoring if Kyrie wasn't able to average 27 ppg in the Finals?[/COLOR]

That's the dilemma Jordan faced in every series since Pippen never scored like Kyrie did - Pippen's high alongside Jordan was only 22 ppg, and he averaged 17 ppg on 40.8% during entire 96-98 playoffs.

That's how we know Lebron couldn't win with Jordan's supporting casts - he couldn't handle the scoring load.. The Bulls needed Jordan to lead the team in scoring for every playoff series of his career, by an average margin of 15.4 ppg - NO all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series, let alone by 15 ppg like Jordan.. Heck, Lebron has many series where he wasn't the team's scoring leader, including an entire playoff run.

when Jordan had a bad supporting cast like lebron he didn't do so well.

We can prove Lebron had better supporting casts because he won 19 more games in 2009 than Jordan won in 1989, despite producing less individually (28/8/7 vs. Jordan's 33/8/8).

The 19 win-advantage despite Lebron's lower production can only be a due to better supporting cast and inferior competition... But not brand of basketball - we know Jordan's brand of basketball was better because his brand thrived and was more successful in the higher-competition playoffs.. Jordan's 6th-seeded Bulls beat higher seeds in every round and took the champion Bad Boys to 6 games in ECF, while Lebron's favored 1 seed saw their brand of basketball exposed by the lowly, underdog Magic.

Jordan attempting to enforce Jordan ball REGRESSED even more the second year going 30-52 but because of [COLOR="Red"]such a weak east[/COLOR] was able to STILL make the playoffs

The 2007 Pistons achieved the 1 seed with only 53 wins, the lowest of any 1 seed ever - a bad 1 seed is a FAR better indication of a weak conference than a bad 8 seed like the Bulls in 86'.

Compare the Pistons' 53 wins (1 seed), to the Cavs' 57 wins (3 seed) in 1989 - clearly, 1989 was the tougher conference.

Btw, we can prove how weak that East was - for Lebron to make the Finals in 2007, he only needed to average 25 ppg on 42% in ECSF, and 26 ppg on 45% in ECF vs. Detroit - these stats would be among the very worst of Jordan's playoff career, whose career averages in the playoffs were 33.5 ppg on 49%.

he WON his first playoff series something ordan just couldn't do..

Lebron played the 42-40 Wizards in that series, who aren't a top 1000 team all-time, whereas Jordan played the 1986 and 1987 Celtics, who were among the best teams of all time.

Jordan faced championship teams in the 1st round (86' Celtics), whereas Lebron didn't face the Spurs until the Finals - but Jordan's stats at 22 years old against the champion Celtics and their #1 defense was 44 ppg on 50%, compared to Lebron's 22 ppg on 36% versus the Spurs in 2007 Finals.

by lebron's fourth year he was winning more games than Jordan despite worse individual production (which means he had a better supporting cast) AND played the worst competition of all time (the 2007 Pistons had the least wins of any 1 seed ever)

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[Dragonyeuw]

Missing the point and resorting to ad homs.

If you take lebron out for 64 games that cavs team isn't winning more than 20

otoh, You take jordan out for 64 games and that team wins 30 only 5 less than when he played a full season. ... Let that sink in

What was the Bulls 86-87 record? 40-42 with his second and third options Charles Oakley and John Paxson. No Woolridge, No Gervin. Literally carrying mediocre talent to 40 wins. What was so special about the 88 roster with Oakley, Dave Corzine, and Pippen/Grant as 7.0 ppg rookies that MJ led to 50 wins?

Big Z alone was better than any teammate MJ had before Pippen and Grant developed, so was Boozer prior to being traded. MJ didn't get his first allstar teammate until 1990. Lebron came into the league with a top 5 center, which in the weak-ass 2000's east is all you needed to be at the minimum competitive. After Miami and Detroit, nothing but mediocre 40+ win teams. MJ's rookie year? The east has 3 50 win teams in 85,in 86 the east had 4 50 win teams. Not comparable situations in the least.... MJ lost to the playoffs to the eventual champions on 3 occasions: 86 Celtics, 89 and 90 Pistons. Asides from the Lakers, the best teams were in MJ's own conference before he got a decent enough team around him. Lebron wouldn't beat those teams either, because he couldn't even beat the 2009 Magic as the number 1 seed, so there's no way in hell he beat much superior 80's Celtics and Pistons championship squads.

[TheWinningFam]

[COLOR="Red"]Ask yourself the following question: could Lebron make up the scoring if Kyrie wasn't able to average 27 ppg in the Finals?[/COLOR]

That's the dilemma Jordan faced in every series since Pippen never scored like Kyrie did - Pippen's high alongside Jordan was only 22 ppg, and he averaged 17 ppg on 40.8% during entire 96-98 playoffs.

That's how we know Lebron couldn't win with Jordan's supporting casts - he couldn't handle the scoring load.. The Bulls needed Jordan to lead the team in scoring for every playoff series of his career, by an average margin of 15.4 ppg - NO all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series, let alone by 15 ppg like Jordan.. Heck, Lebron has many series where he wasn't the team's scoring leader, including an entire playoff run.



We can prove Lebron had better supporting casts because he won 19 more games in 2009 than Jordan won in 1989, despite producing less individually (28/8/7 vs. Jordan's 33/8/8).

The 19 win-advantage despite Lebron's lower production can only be a due to better supporting cast and inferior competition... But not brand of basketball - we know Jordan's brand of basketball was better because his brand thrived and was more successful in the higher-competition playoffs.. Jordan's 6th-seeded Bulls beat higher seeds in every round and took the champion Bad Boys to 6 games in ECF, while Lebron's favored 1 seed saw their brand of basketball exposed by the lowly, underdog Magic.



The 2007 Pistons achieved the 1 seed with only 53 wins, the lowest of any 1 seed ever - a bad 1 seed is a FAR better indication of a weak conference than a bad 8 seed like the Bulls in 86'.

Compare the Pistons' 53 wins (1 seed), to the Cavs' 57 wins (3 seed) in 1989 - clearly, 1989 was the tougher conference.

Btw, we can prove how weak that East was - for Lebron to make the Finals in 2007, he only needed to average 25 ppg on 42% in ECSF, and 26 ppg on 45% in ECF vs. Detroit - these stats would be among the very worst of Jordan's playoff career, whose career averages in the playoffs were 33.5 ppg on 49%.



Lebron played the 42-40 Wizards in that series, who aren't a top 1000 team all-time, whereas Jordan played the 1986 and 1987 Celtics, who were among the best teams of all time.

Jordan faced championship teams in the 1st round (86' Celtics), whereas Lebron didn't face the Spurs until the Finals - but Jordan's stats at 22 years old against the champion Celtics and their #1 defense was 44 ppg on 50%, compared to Lebron's 22 ppg on 36% in 2007 Finals.



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Jordan's numbers were higher due to a faster pace.. when you adjust to per 100 lebron scored more rebounded AND had more assists than jordan DESPITE a weaker supporting cast. By then jordan had pippen and paxson

Per 100 2009 lebron stats : 41.0ppg 10.8aspg 11.1Rbpg
Jordan stats 1989: 40.0ppg 9.9aspg 9.9rbpg

Lebron won more games with more production with LESSER teammates than jordan.