Was Kobe a Top 10 Player in 2010? An Insidehoops Case Study

[warriorfan]

Let's see, in 2010 Kobe was 1st team all-NBA, 1st team all-defense, 3rd in MVP voting, and he won his 2nd straight title and FMVP. To suggest that he wasn't top 10 is laughable. He arguably had the best overall season in the league. The near consensus top 3 players were Lebron, Wade, and Kobe.

That means LeBron lost with another top 3 player while Kobe won with Pau Gasol

[Dray n Klay]

Let's see, in 2010 Kobe was 1st team all-NBA, 1st team all-defense, 3rd in MVP voting, and he won his 2nd straight title and FMVP. To suggest that he wasn't top 10 is laughable. He arguably had the best overall season in the league. The near consensus top 3 players were Lebron, Wade, and Kobe.

Hmm.. Not much substance to your argument.


There have been many players selected to the 1st team all-NBA who weren't Top 10 players.



For example, Deandre Jordan was 1st team this season and he's not a Top 10 player




Joakim Noah was 1st team in 2013, and he also was not Top 10


And many players who win FMVP aren't Top 10 players either (Iguodala, Kawhi, Billups etc)














Also:


Kobe was 14th in PER

Player Efficiency Rating

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 31.1
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 28.0
3. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 26.2
4. Chris Bosh ▪ TOR 25.0
5. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 24.7
6. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 24.0
7. Chris Paul ▪ NOH 23.7
8. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 22.9
9. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 22.9
10. Amar'e Stoudemire ▪ 22.6
11. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 22.5
12. Carmelo Anthony ▪ 22.2
13. David Lee ▪ NYK 22.2
14. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 21.9





Wasnt even Top 20 in Win Shares

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 18.5
2. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 16.1
3. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 13.2
4. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 13.0
5. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 12.3
6. Gerald Wallace ▪ CHA 11.5
7. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 11.0
8. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 10.9
9. Al Horford ▪ ATL 10.9
10. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 10.8
11. Amar'e Stoudemire ▪ PHO 10.7
12. Deron Williams ▪ UTA 10.3
13. David Lee ▪ NYK 10.3
14. Carlos Boozer ▪ UTA 9.9
15. Steve Nash ▪ PHO 9.9
16. Zach Randolph ▪ MEM 9.7
17. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 9.7
18. Rajon Rondo ▪ BOS 9.6
19. Chris Bosh ▪ TOR 9.6
20. Chauncey Billups ▪ DEN 9.5


Wheres Kobe??




19th in Box Plus/Minus



Box Plus/Minus
1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 12.5
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 9.4
3. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 6.3
4. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 5.6
5. Josh Smith ▪ ATL 5.5
6. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 5.5
7. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 5.4
8. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 5.1
9. Chris Paul ▪ NOH 4.9
10. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 4.7
11. Marcus Camby ▪ TOT 4.5
12. Andrei Kirilenko ▪ UTA 4.5
13. Marc Gasol ▪ MEM 4.3
14. Jason Kidd ▪ DAL 4.3
15. Brandon Roy ▪ POR 4.1
16. Ben Wallace ▪ DET 3.9
17. Jared Dudley ▪ PHO 3.7
18. Channing Frye ▪ PHO 3.7
19. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 3.6
20. Carlos Boozer ▪ UTA 3.5





13th in Value over Replacement Player (VORP)

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 10.9
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 8.0
3. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 5.8
4. Josh Smith ▪ ATL 5.4
5. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 5.4
6. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 4.7
7. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 4.6
8. Jason Kidd ▪ DAL 4.6
9. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 4.5
10. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 4.5
11. Gerald Wallace ▪ CHA 4.3
12. Rajon Rondo ▪ BOS 4.1
13. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 4.0



However he WAS 2nd in Field Goals Missed, so he makes Top 10 in something

Field Goals Missed
1. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 874
2. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 853
3. Stephen Jackson ▪ TOT 818
4. Carmelo Anthony ▪ DEN 814
5. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 792
6. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 776
7. Monta Ellis ▪ GSW 775
8. Brandon Jennings ▪ MIL 765
9. LeBron James ▪ CLE 760
10. Aaron Brooks ▪ HOU 756










Conclusion: Overall there is no evidence to suggest Kobe was a Top 10 Player in 2010. Furthermore, his teammate Gasol was ahead of him in many of the above metrics (PER, Winshares, VORP, Box Plus/Minus etc).




Therefore, Kobe was not a Top 10 player in 2010, and he was only the 2nd best player on his own team (behind Gasol)

[NBAGOAT]

he was easily top 10 in rapm that year and top 5 if we're just looking at offense(behind Wade, Nash, and Lebron) so there's still advanced metrics out there that have him top 10.

[Young X]

Kobe got injured somewhere in the middle of the season all the way to the 1st round against OKC when he got his knee drained.

So he underperformed a little in the regular season and his numbers were down.

But at full strength he was definitely a top 5 player at worst and everybody knew it. He proved it by his play in the postseason against the Jazz and Suns.

And his series against the Celtics wasn't bad either. He was having a solid series all the way up to the game 7.

[GrapeApe]

Hmm.. Not much substance to your argument.


There have been many players selected to the 1st team all-NBA who weren't Top 10 players.



For example, Deandre Jordan was 1st team this season and he's not a Top 10 player




Joakim Noah was 1st team in 2013, and he also was not Top 10


And many players who win FMVP aren't Top 10 players either (Iguodala, Kawhi, Billups etc)














Also:


Kobe was 14th in PER

Player Efficiency Rating

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 31.1
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 28.0
3. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 26.2
4. Chris Bosh ▪ TOR 25.0
5. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 24.7
6. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 24.0
7. Chris Paul ▪ NOH 23.7
8. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 22.9
9. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 22.9
10. Amar'e Stoudemire ▪ 22.6
11. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 22.5
12. Carmelo Anthony ▪ 22.2
13. David Lee ▪ NYK 22.2
14. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 21.9





Wasnt even Top 20 in Win Shares

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 18.5
2. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 16.1
3. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 13.2
4. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 13.0
5. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 12.3
6. Gerald Wallace ▪ CHA 11.5
7. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 11.0
8. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 10.9
9. Al Horford ▪ ATL 10.9
10. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 10.8
11. Amar'e Stoudemire ▪ PHO 10.7
12. Deron Williams ▪ UTA 10.3
13. David Lee ▪ NYK 10.3
14. Carlos Boozer ▪ UTA 9.9
15. Steve Nash ▪ PHO 9.9
16. Zach Randolph ▪ MEM 9.7
17. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 9.7
18. Rajon Rondo ▪ BOS 9.6
19. Chris Bosh ▪ TOR 9.6
20. Chauncey Billups ▪ DEN 9.5


Wheres Kobe??




19th in Box Plus/Minus



Box Plus/Minus
1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 12.5
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 9.4
3. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 6.3
4. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 5.6
5. Josh Smith ▪ ATL 5.5
6. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 5.5
7. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 5.4
8. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 5.1
9. Chris Paul ▪ NOH 4.9
10. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 4.7
11. Marcus Camby ▪ TOT 4.5
12. Andrei Kirilenko ▪ UTA 4.5
13. Marc Gasol ▪ MEM 4.3
14. Jason Kidd ▪ DAL 4.3
15. Brandon Roy ▪ POR 4.1
16. Ben Wallace ▪ DET 3.9
17. Jared Dudley ▪ PHO 3.7
18. Channing Frye ▪ PHO 3.7
19. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 3.6
20. Carlos Boozer ▪ UTA 3.5





13th in Value over Replacement Player (VORP)

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 10.9
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 8.0
3. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 5.8
4. Josh Smith ▪ ATL 5.4
5. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 5.4
6. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 4.7
7. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 4.6
8. Jason Kidd ▪ DAL 4.6
9. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 4.5
10. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 4.5
11. Gerald Wallace ▪ CHA 4.3
12. Rajon Rondo ▪ BOS 4.1
13. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 4.0



However he WAS 2nd in Field Goals Missed, so he makes Top 10 in something

Field Goals Missed
1. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 874
2. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 853
3. Stephen Jackson ▪ TOT 818
4. Carmelo Anthony ▪ DEN 814
5. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 792
6. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 776
7. Monta Ellis ▪ GSW 775
8. Brandon Jennings ▪ MIL 765
9. LeBron James ▪ CLE 760
10. Aaron Brooks ▪ HOU 756










Conclusion: Overall there is no evidence to suggest Kobe was a Top 10 Player in 2010. Furthermore, his teammate Gasol was ahead of him in many of the above metrics (PER, Winshares, VORP, Box Plus/Minus etc).




Therefore, Kobe was not a Top 10 player in 2010, and he was only the 2nd best player on his own team (behind Gasol)

Hmm, I must have forgot about when Deandre Jordan, Jokim Noah, and Iggy were 1st team all-NBA, 1st team all-defense, FMVP, and top 3 in MVP voting in the same season. Refresh my memory.

There has never been and will never be a player with that combination of accolades who isn't a unanimous top 10 player. Kobe is one of only a handful of players in history do that.

[chazzy]

Kobe got injured somewhere in the middle of the season all the way to the 1st round against OKC when he got his knee drained.

So he underperformed a little in the regular season and his numbers were down.

But at full strength he was definitely a top 5 player at worst and everybody knew it. He proved it by his play in the postseason against the Jazz and Suns.

And his series against the Celtics wasn't bad either. He was having a solid series all the way up to the game 7.

This, and it was top 3 at worst. Only Lebron and Wade had cases when it was all said and done. Wade's strongest case being his performance against Boston, though it was a 5 game loss.

But let these kids who started watching afterwards tell us whats really good by looking up stats

[eliteballer]

Win Shares


6. Gerald Wallace ▪ CHA 11.5
7. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 11.0
8. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 10.9

[ImKobe]

Kobe coasted in the regular season and had his knee drained mid playoffs, he averaged like 34/7/8 on elite efficiency in the wcf

If yall love winshares and plus minus, 2001 kobe led the lakers in plus minus and had the same ws/48 as peak shaq as they went 15-1

[K.dot ShowTime]

Of course he was. Gasol was better than him imo but if you consider his RS and PS contribution he's clearly top 10. You can argue if he was top 10 in the regular season but I rate playoffs performance higher. That's why LeBron is still better than Curry even though Curry was miles ahead of him in the regular season.

[Mr Feeny]

He was 14th in PER

Player Efficiency Rating

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 31.1
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 28.0
3. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 26.2
4. Chris Bosh ▪ TOR 25.0
5. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 24.7
6. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 24.0
7. Chris Paul ▪ NOH 23.7
8. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 22.9
9. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 22.9
10. Amar'e Stoudemire ▪ 22.6
11. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 22.5
12. Carmelo Anthony ▪ 22.2
13. David Lee ▪ NYK 22.2
14. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 21.9





Wasnt even Top 20 in Win Shares

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 18.5
2. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 16.1
3. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 13.2
4. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 13.0
5. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 12.3
6. Gerald Wallace ▪ CHA 11.5
7. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 11.0
8. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 10.9
9. Al Horford ▪ ATL 10.9
10. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 10.8
11. Amar'e Stoudemire ▪ PHO 10.7
12. Deron Williams ▪ UTA 10.3
13. David Lee ▪ NYK 10.3
14. Carlos Boozer ▪ UTA 9.9
15. Steve Nash ▪ PHO 9.9
16. Zach Randolph ▪ MEM 9.7
17. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 9.7
18. Rajon Rondo ▪ BOS 9.6
19. Chris Bosh ▪ TOR 9.6
20. Chauncey Billups ▪ DEN 9.5


Wheres Kobe??




19th in Box Plus/Minus



Box Plus/Minus
1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 12.5
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 9.4
3. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 6.3
4. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 5.6
5. Josh Smith ▪ ATL 5.5
6. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 5.5
7. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 5.4
8. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 5.1
9. Chris Paul ▪ NOH 4.9
10. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 4.7
11. Marcus Camby ▪ TOT 4.5
12. Andrei Kirilenko ▪ UTA 4.5
13. Marc Gasol ▪ MEM 4.3
14. Jason Kidd ▪ DAL 4.3
15. Brandon Roy ▪ POR 4.1
16. Ben Wallace ▪ DET 3.9
17. Jared Dudley ▪ PHO 3.7
18. Channing Frye ▪ PHO 3.7
19. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 3.6
20. Carlos Boozer ▪ UTA 3.5





13th in Value over Replacement Player (VORP)

1. LeBron James ▪ CLE 10.9
2. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 8.0
3. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 5.8
4. Josh Smith ▪ ATL 5.4
5. Dwight Howard ▪ ORL 5.4
6. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 4.7
7. Nene Hilario ▪ DEN 4.6
8. Jason Kidd ▪ DAL 4.6
9. Manu Ginobili ▪ SAS 4.5
10. Pau Gasol ▪ LAL 4.5
11. Gerald Wallace ▪ CHA 4.3
12. Rajon Rondo ▪ BOS 4.1
13. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 4.0



However he WAS 2nd in Field Goals Missed, so he makes Top 10 in something

Field Goals Missed
1. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 874
2. Kobe Bryant ▪ LAL 853
3. Stephen Jackson ▪ TOT 818
4. Carmelo Anthony ▪ DEN 814
5. Dwyane Wade ▪ MIA 792
6. Dirk Nowitzki ▪ DAL 776
7. Monta Ellis ▪ GSW 775
8. Brandon Jennings ▪ MIL 765
9. LeBron James ▪ CLE 760
10. Aaron Brooks ▪ HOU 756










Conclusion: Overall there is no evidence to suggest Kobe was a Top 10 Player in 2010. Furthermore, his teammate Gasol was ahead of him in many of the above metrics (PER, Winshares, VORP, Box Plus/Minus etc).




Therefore, Kobe was not a Top 10 player in 2010, and he was only the 2nd best player on his own team (behind Gasol)

I see that Gasol was ahead of kobe

[Dray n Klay]

Gasol > Kobe in 2010

[Dray n Klay]

Kobe coasted in the regular season and had his knee drained mid playoffs, he averaged like 34/7/8 on elite efficiency in the wcf

If yall love winshares and plus minus, 2001 kobe led the lakers in plus minus and had the same ws/48 as peak shaq as they went 15-1

He 'coasted' but he still took the 2nd most shots in the league??



That's not coasting dumbass








Kobe was just flat out garbage

[feyki]

Let's see, in 2010 Kobe was 1st team all-NBA, 1st team all-defense, 3rd in MVP voting, and he won his 2nd straight title and FMVP. To suggest that he wasn't top 10 is laughable. He arguably had the best overall season in the league. The near consensus top 3 players were Lebron, Wade, and Kobe.

/thread

[Mr Feeny]

Gasol > Kobe in 2010

That's what we've all been saying