Outside of shooting, is there anything Kyrie is better than John Wall at?

[Papaya Petee]

Individually, Wall is a better player.
Kyrie Irving fits much better as a second option to LeBron.

Wall is a much better playmaker and creator, but when you have LeBron on your team you don't need to focus on playmaking as much and focus on scoring.
Kyrie is the better scorer of the two, Wall is a better playmaker and defender.

[ralph_i_el]

BPM, OBPM, DBPM seems pretty legit to me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...6_leaders.html

I do kind of get what you're saying though in that Kyrie is somewhat one dimensional but that one dimension he possesses is the most important aspect in the game. But no doubt he doesn't give you that all around game of a CP3.

I agree, which is why he's an all-star caliber player.

Box Score Plus/Minus says that Nikola Jokic was the 11th best player in the league last year.

OBPM says that JJ Redick, Jrue holiday, Kemba, and Reggie Jackson were all better than Kyrie (and Dame+Isaiah). Kyrie is tied with Lou Williams.

DBPM says Trevor Booker is the 19th best defender in the league. Booker gets a ton of steals because he's an undersized 4, so teams go at him a lot....and he tries to get steals because otherwise he's getting scored on. DBPM does not have Tony Allen as a top-20 defender.....

All stats are flawed, but OBPM and DBPM are VERY flawed. They are just an aggregate of box score stats.

[ralph_i_el]

Kyrie has quicker feet and is stronger than Wall. Wall has more length and recovery speed which is more suitable for team defense. Wall a better overall defender? Yeah. Man defender? I still pick a motivated Kyrie which isn't often, but the talent is there.

I see what you're getting at here. Wall has had trouble with little quick point guards in the past. Guys like Aaron Brooks who are mini but ridiculously quick.

However, Wall has the added advantage of being able to check SG's. Honestly, he would work well in a Jason Kidd-Jason Terry sort of pairing, where they can switch guard positions on D.

[LostCause]

Irving is a better scorer, period, as far as I'm concerned (Haven't checked advanced stats or anything, just the eye test)

I also think his potential is greater

[tpols]

John Wall is a ~ 15/8/4 player in the playoffs as of now.. he shoots 47 TS.



Poor man's rondo aint touching kyrie.

[El Gato Negro]

http://youtu.be/Ib6rqOcIADQ in two years kyrie will have hit more game winners than bran. Can't teach clutch. Kyrie plays defense when he needs to.

[RedBlackAttack]

It has become pretty apparent that Kyrie has a level he can reach when he needs to that most other players (even amongst stars) do not possess. He has always had that extra gear, even before LeBron came back. In his formative years, he was always at or near the top in "clutch" play as broken down by 82games. Hell, he did it in the 2014 FIBA Games, going off in the most crucial games/situations.

He was likely on his way to doing it in the 2015 playoffs before the injuries started mounting. He was torching the Celtics backcourt, which is one of the best defensive groups in the league. As it was, he arguably outplayed Curry in Game 1 of The Finals with a truly damaged knee before it exploded. He has now played 8 Finals games against the two-time defending MVP. Each time going in, all we hear about is how the Cavs are going to have to overcome defensive liabilities with having to play versus Curry. Each time, Irving has been the problem Golden State can't solve.

So, when evaluating players, these are things that need to be taken into serious consideration. Could he play the way he does in those huge playoff or Gold Medal games all the time if he really pressed himself? I'm not sure. He might eventually get to that point. Do I have complete confidence that, in the biggest moments and on the biggest stages, he is always going to be the best version of himself? Yep.

Also, I think people are putting way too much stock into the 2016 regular season, especially these analytical robot journalists who regurgitate a mathematical equation and attempt to box players into it. The last time Kyrie was healthy for the majority of a regular season, he was All NBA at 22 years old. When you factor that into his superstar caliber playoff run, you come out with a pretty accomplished player with a skillset that, while flaws do exist, has proven his positives far outweigh any negatives.

Whether he is "better" than Wall, they're completely different kinds of players and the answer would largely depend on the situation.