When did Larry Bird become a top 10 player of all time?

[StrongLurk]

My whole point is that older players have the first mover advantage so it's harder to kick them out of the top 10 all time...when it shouldn't be harder.

[superduper]

My whole point is that older players have the first mover advantage so it's harder to kick them out of the top 10 all time...when it shouldn't be harder.

Not at all. It definitely plays a factor because they are pioneers of the game who invented/innovated everything being done in the league right now. But players like Duncan/Shaq/Kobe/Bran are up there with the older guys because they are transcendent, have the accolades, have the peak play. Anyone from the present moving forward who accumulates similar accolades/rings to compliment their all time great level of play will definitely be ranked by some into the top 10-15.

[ClipperRevival]

How is he NOT? Individual accolades (3 MVP, 2 FMVP), team accolades (3 rings), GOAT tier peak, arguably the most skilled player ever, clutch as hell and killer instinct. He checks off boxes that only a few can approach.

[StrongLurk]

Not at all. It definitely plays a factor because they are pioneers of the game who invented/innovated everything being done in the league right now. But players like Duncan/Shaq/Kobe/Bran are up there with the older guys because they are transcendent, have the accolades, have the peak play. Anyone from the present moving forward who accumulates similar accolades/rings to compliment their all time great level of play will definitely be ranked by some into the top 10-15.

It is common sense that the next generation will ALWAYS have to do more to get into the top 10...because the top 10 is so established now.

You just said it yourself, they will be ranked in the top 10-15.

When in reality, guys like Bird and Magic should be on much shakier grounds for top ten all time consideration (don't even get me started on Bill Russell and Wilt).

It will be impossible to even have a standardized top 10 in 20-30 more years.

[72-10]

I bet it's with the conclusion of the 1984 playoffs.

Truth be told, some people started making arguments for Bird as the GOAT by like 1983. Most of these people lived in the Boston area, and probably what they really meant was that he was playing basketball at the highest level they'd ever seen. I personally don't see how anyone could make a convincing GOAT argument, then or now, but he was most def top 10 by the mid-1980s. His biggest rival, Magic Johnson, might have been as well.

When we look back on the mid-1980s, we'd have to consider just who the top 10 players of all-time were. The NBA's 35th Anniversary All-Time Team would probably help a lot here since it was published in 1980-81 thereabouts.

In the mid-1980s, many people thought the GOAT was either Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, with an extremely small minority reporting Oscar Robertson as their choice. The New York Times published an article in 1985 discussing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as their pick for the GOAT title. So that covers four who are all clearly greater than Bird by the mid-1980s.

Then we have Jerry West, who was almost as impressive as Robertson, but had lost many times in the Finals to the Celtics. Then there's Julius Erving, who was basically the ABA's unsung ambassador and had just revolutionized the game by literally taking it to a higher level with his acrobatic stunts on the court.

There is not much doubt in my mind that these 6 players were greater than Bird in the mid-1980s.

Who would probably round out a top 10 then were Larry Bird, John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor, Magic Johnson, or maybe George Mikan (I've named 11). Magic has the weakest case of all of these players after the 1983-84 season, which is when I'd say Bird cracked the top ten.

[BigShotBob]

Bird is the most skilled basketball player to have ever played the game.

Just watch a full game of his. Not a highlight. A full game. Several full games. Then come back to me.

Until then don't speak on what you don't know.