We're seeing what Lebron would've done on a developing, new coach Bulls team in 1990

[3ball]

the 2007 Cavs 10 years vets: 3

the 2019 Lakers 10 year vets: 5

2007 Cavs 8 year vets: 7

2019 Lakers 8 year vets: 6

2007 Cavs 5 year vets: 8

2019 Lakers 5 year vets: 7

Zydrunas/Hughes/Gooden were 31/28/25, versus 23/21/20 for Kuzma/Ingram/Ball

The starters are much younger n these lakers

[warriorfan]

Lebron and his business team would get the young, 1st time coach fired and ship out the 16-18 point 2nd options for an established stud that could carry the offensive load better

He needs ready-made teams with star vets - his style doesn't develop players or teams

What am I missing

Oh.. the triangle.. he'd never play in that either
.

So true about the triangle. I always get a good laugh when people say

[OldSchoolBBall]

The idea of Lebron playing in the triangle is hysterical. Dude wouldn't know what to do with himself, and his supposed "sky high basketball IQ" would be exposed.

[And1AllDay]

At least we know Bron aint going to play baseball

[sportjames23]

um we already saw what lebron would do on a developing team and new coach. 2007 finals at 22.

And swept at 22

[TheCorporation]

And swept at 22

What no way? Against 10.7 #2 Jeff Hornacek? 6'1 Payton? Terry Porter?

Oh, he actually played against a dynasty. Never mind yawwwwn

[3ball]

Um we already saw [COLOR="Navy"]what lebron would do on a developing team[/COLOR] and new coach. 2007 finals at 22.

It isn't about the developing team, it's about whether the developing team can grow into a champion. Lebron can't do it, so he's blowing these lakers up

And the stats show that lebron's upsets don't exceed MJ's:

2007 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 [COLOR="White"]t[/COLOR]DET:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

2018 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #14 SRS.. 50 wins.. 4 seed
2018 [COLOR="White"]t[/COLOR]TOR:[COLOR="White"].lt[/COLOR] #2 SRS.. 59 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [COLOR="White"]n[/COLOR]#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

^^^ Jordan's 89' upset matches lebron's 18', and both exceed 07'... But MJ did more with less, since his 6 seed took the champs 6 games, while lebron's 2 and 4 seeds had record sweeps.

Btw, lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. And he needed to produce more to win - 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for Bron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts

[tpols]

its pretty astonishing... dude just has some of the worst intangibles of any GOAT.

Cant develop or play alongside young talent, and underachieves with MVP / all NBA stacked squads.

[3ball]

What no upset?

the stats show that MJ's upsets are equal or better than lebron's:

2007 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 [COLOR="White"]t[/COLOR]DET:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

2018 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #14 SRS.. 50 wins.. 4 seed
2018 [COLOR="White"]t[/COLOR]TOR:[COLOR="White"].lt[/COLOR] #2 SRS.. 59 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [COLOR="White"]n[/COLOR]#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

^^^ Jordan's 89' upset matches lebron's 18', and both exceed 07'... But MJ did more with less, since his 6 seed took the champs 6 games, while lebron's 2 and 4 seeds had record sweeps.

Furthermore, lebron created the long odds he faced in 2018 by not faring well with IT, Rose, Hood, Crowder, thereby winning less with lower seed and SRS. The Cavs were actually 3-time defending East champs, not a young, low seed like the 89' bulls.

So even though lebron's upset in 18' statistically compares to MJ's in 89', it's inferior when the aforementioned context is considered.

Indeed, mj's 89' run reigns as the better carry-job, and the stats have always shown that.

What no way? Against 10.7 #2 Jeff Hornacek? 6'1 Payton? Terry Porter?

1) Payton was the same height as Wade

2) Hornacek beat Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem in the 98' playoffs - that's 3 top 10 players and therefore the most talent that anyone ever beat to make a Finals .... so I think he's good comp for MJ

MJ never played against a dynasty.

Isiah was 29 in 1991.. dumars and rodman were 27. They were all-stars and the team was favored to 3-peat heading into the 91' season.

So they were a dynasty, but the bulls simply destroyed them the same way the 14' spurs beat the 2-time Heat: with superior brand of ball against an all-star team (pistons had 3x all-stars at every starting spot; bulls had 1x pippen)

Surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into the 91' season.

MJ never played against a dynasty

Sam Perkins and Vlade Divac were sophisticated bigs that could pass/shoot and both averaged 17/9 in the 91' Finals - they were easily better than anyone after the magic/mj and worthy/pippen matchups..

and btw, magic was 31 and runner-up for league MVP, while worthy was all-nba and led the Lakers in Finals scoring at 19 ppg... After magic/worthy/divac/perkins, the Lakers still had 90' all-star ac green (divac/perkins took his minutes).. and elden campbell...

That's way more talent than the bulls had, and the Lakers best players had been to a combined 12 Finals, versus the Bulls' zero - for these reasons, the bulls were underdogs heading into the 91' Finals, as NBA.com documents:

the Bulls were considered big underdogs to the Lakers in the Finals and the vast majority of media "experts" predicted an easy Lakers' victory.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/top-20...1-season.html/

Never mind yawwwwn

Ultimately, Lebron sacrifices the best opportunity to win (ball movement) by attempting to win in a ball-dominant/stat-padding way - this self-serving approach creates long odds and accordingly, rarely wins at the championship level. 3/9

And the stats don't lie.. lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. MJ simply produced more to win - 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for lebron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts

Finally, only lebron was a bonafide "bad defender" in his last 4 Finals losses - no spur or warrior scored more than 2 points above their RS average in the 14/15/17/18 Finals, except Iggy (8.5 above avg), Durant (10.1), Kawhi (5.0), and McGee (4.0).. so lebron was the leak on the defensive end
.

[superduper]

What no way? Against 10.7 #2 Jeff Hornacek? 6'1 Payton? Terry Porter?

Oh, he actually played against a dynasty. Never mind yawwwwn

If Payton is 6'1 then MJ is 6'1.5

[sdot_thadon]

Zydrunas/Hughes/Gooden were 31/28/25, versus 23/21/20 for Kuzma/Ingram/Ball

The starters are much younger n these lakers

right and Lebron would be 10 whole years older than Mj was in this scenario. Poor 3bum when you move goalposts so much you'll always end up boxing yourself in. Funny to watch you do it though.

[3ball]

right and Lebron would be 10 whole years older than Mj was in this scenario. Poor 3bum when you move goalposts so much you'll always end up boxing yourself in. Funny to watch you do it though.

34 year old mj embraced phil and the triangle even more than 90' mj did..

MJ was fundamentally-sound, and would never jettison Phil or any coach like what lebron did to Luke and Blatt, and tried terminate spolestra too (but Riley put him in his place)

So age has nothing to do with it

Lebron simply sacrifices the best opportunity to win (ball movement/good coaching) by attempting to win in a ball-dominant/stat-padding way - this self-serving approach requires more help and creates long odds.. Accordingly, it rarely wins at the championship level. 3/9

And surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into the 91' season... (2015 pre-season odds)

Finally, the stats don't lie.. lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. And MJ simply produced more to win: 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for lebron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts
.

[TheCorporation]

[3ball]

That's a white flag to my last post, so it's settled.

Lebron simply sacrifices the best opportunity to win (ball movement/good coaching) by attempting to win in a ball-dominant/stat-padding way - this self-serving approach requires more help and creates long odds.. Accordingly, it rarely wins at the championship level. 3/9

And surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into the 91' season... (2015 pre-season odds)

Finally, the stats don't lie.. lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. And MJ simply produced more to win: 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for lebron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts

[TheCorporation]

If Payton is 6'1 then MJ is 6'1.5

Ok geeze, 6'2.5 Payton