Soccer Discussion Thread

[ArbitraryWater]

Your idol didn't do shit in so many rounds and it didn't cost them... and that's ok?

In all seriousness though, no one makes these comparisons anymore. Messi is well clear after the WC and set in stone as the modern GOAT.

If youre a casual, yeah.

Youre lying. Ronaldo almost never "didnt do shit".


Ronaldo barely had an off round from 2008-2020 lol. And if he did, usually against teams where it was affordable. Try finding all off rounds in that 13-year span and blow your mind at the same time.


Messi is Wilt.

A complete fraud. One of the top 5 GOATs, but calling him the GOAT gives me headaches.

[dankok8]

Messi is Wilt except he has the best resume ever with 4-5 of the greatest CL campaigns and 2 of the greatest WC campaigns of all time...

[ArbitraryWater]

Messi is Wilt except he has the best resume ever with 4-5 of the greatest CL campaigns and 2 of the greatest WC campaigns of all time...

best resume ever


what 4-5 of the greatest CL campaigns are you taking about?

You are like competey insane when it comes to football / Messi lol.

The guy had 2 great runs, just like Wilt, and was a pereniall disappointment and finals loser every other year. The fact they created extra Copa for him to finally win one against Brazils B team, doesnt change that.



I get falling for 2022 as a GOAT WC campaign cause of all the penalties and running up the score when the game is over being deceaving, but you must have absolutely 0 shame calling 2014 one of the greatest WC campaigns of all time when everyone and their mother agreed Messi was far from even being the best player that tournament.


Its like you live in a different dimension.

[hold this L]

Except when he completely destroyed them in 2009 and 2015... And last night he put two perfect balls on Ramos' head from corner kicks. Not his fault they weren't scored. Or that Vitinha didn't score from a wide open goal the one De Ligt took off the goal line. It's not like Messi's teammates had good games. Mbappe who is the supposed best player in PSG according to you know which group had an even worse game.

Anyways Veratti did get fouled on both occasions. It's not a big deal they didn't call it because Bayern go through anyways but let's call a spade a spade.

Messi was terrible in the game. Having two good crosses from set pieces doesn't change that he was awful for the rest of the game. It's ok when he plays zero defense or any semblance of pressing when he's doing so much offensively, but he could do nothing all game. Also LOL at having two great games out 5 separate ties. Mueller has a much better offensive run than Messi does vs Barca.

And no Veratti didn't get fouled, he got bullied. If those are fouls, then we would have games with 50 fouls and 5-6 reds per game. It's the same as the "foul" on Sommer during his kick that turned into a chance. Yes they can call just because there is minor contact, but it would be a terrible call.

[hold this L]

Messi is Wilt except he has the best resume ever with 4-5 of the greatest CL campaigns and 2 of the greatest WC campaigns of all time...

I agree Messi is the goat but I know you're still not saying that dumb shit that Messi did **** all in 2014. 1 goal/assist in all KO rounds after he was done flat tracking bullying teams in the group stages. "1 of the greatest WC campaigns of all time"

[plowking]

Messi outside of teams specifically built for him where he can coast and walk hasn't looked the all time level great player he usually is.

TBH, neither CR7 or Messi are as good as R9 at his best. Soccer went down the dumbass route basketball has at some point where people act like goals and assists are the only influencers on a game - and apparently Ronaldo and Messi just trumped all the players before them because of it.

[ArbitraryWater]

Messi outside of teams specifically built for him where he can coast and walk hasn't looked the all time level great player he usually is.

TBH, neither CR7 or Messi are as good as R9 at his best. Soccer went down the dumbass route basketball has at some point where people act like goals and assists are the only influencers on a game - and apparently Ronaldo and Messi just trumped all the players before them because of it.

it hasnt, thats just always been the most meaningful part. and these 2 created more goals wether scored or assisted than anyone else, ever.

CR7 had as many R9 level seasons even outside of his scoring years, where he was the same level of dribbler (06-10, circa).

[dankok8]

I agree Messi is the goat but I know you're still not saying that dumb shit that Messi did **** all in 2014. 1 goal/assist in all KO rounds after he was done flat tracking bullying teams in the group stages. "1 of the greatest WC campaigns of all time"

His playmaking and dribbling was GOAT level in 2014. You're underrating how great he was in the Round of 16 and SF in 2014. He dominated those matches. And at least solid against Belgium and Germany. Remember that Argentina was a low scoring team with a very defensive style.

To be clear one of the greatest means like top 10-15. I don't mean it's as good as the absolute best but not many players in history had a WC as good as Messi in 2014.

Messi outside of teams specifically built for him where he can coast and walk hasn't looked the all time level great player he usually is.

TBH, neither CR7 or Messi are as good as R9 at his best. Soccer went down the dumbass route basketball has at some point where people act like goals and assists are the only influencers on a game - and apparently Ronaldo and Messi just trumped all the players before them because of it.

CR is a top 10 player of all-time maybe top 5 but not a GOAT candidate. His all-around game doesn't match the likes of Messi/Pele/Maradona nor a few others like Cruyff/Di Stefano/Puskas/Platini as well and that second group rarely even gets GOAT shouts...

Messi to me along with Pele are the two GOAT players. Pele is the only one on the same tier with Messi when you look at their entire body of work. Maradona in terms of peak absolutely has a GOAT case and I value longevity less than most but Maradona just didn't sustain his best level. In fact I doubt Maradona without the 1986 WC gets any GOAT shouts and for as great as it was (GOAT WC run...) it is just one tournament. So he has a weaker case than Messi/Pele IMO.

As for Brazilian Ronaldo he's top 10 as well but more on the back end. Short career and even his peak lags behind a few others because when he didn't score he didn't impact games much on the pitch. I would struggle to have him above CR at this point let alone Messi.

[hold this L]

His playmaking and dribbling was GOAT level in 2014. You're underrating how great he was in the Round of 16 and SF in 2014. He dominated those matches. And at least solid against Belgium and Germany. Remember that Argentina was a low scoring team with a very defensive style.

To be clear one of the greatest means like top 10-15. I don't mean it's as good as the absolute best but not many players in history had a WC as good as Messi in 2014.

He was ghosting on top of providing zero defensive capabilities. Which is fine for both Ronaldo and Messi when they're so good offensively, but he wasn't. Would love to know where this goat-level playmaking was happening or dribbling. What did it result in?

[dankok8]

He was ghosting on top of providing zero defensive capabilities. Which is fine for both Ronaldo and Messi when they're so good offensively, but he wasn't. Would love to know where this goat-level playmaking was happening or dribbling. What did it result in?

Those passes didn't result in anything in the SF and Final because the recipients were Higuain, Lavezzi, Perez and Biglia. One choker and three bums. I don't think people realize how offensive inept 2014 Argentina was. Especially without both Di Maria and Aguero out down the stretch of the tournament.

[hold this L]

Those passes didn't result in anything in the SF and Final because the recipients were Higuain, Lavezzi, Perez and Biglia. One choker and three bums. I don't think people realize how offensive inept 2014 Argentina was. Especially without both Di Maria and Aguero out down the stretch of the tournament.

That team was carried to the finals purely because they were the best defensive team in the tournament, something of which walking only mode Messi offered nothing in.


Saying Messi is the best player or anywhere near the best either means you're such a massive stan that you have zero reason, or you're retarded. If his name wasn't Messi and he played the same way, he would have never been up for consideration.

[dankok8]

That team was carried to the finals purely because they were the best defensive team in the tournament, something of which walking only mode Messi offered nothing in.

It's not that simple. Messi's goals won them all 3 group stage matches. And he was brilliant against Switzerland not just for the assist but he created so many chances in that match. Now sure his QF to F run isn't legendary but earlier rounds still count for a lot especially when his contributions were needed.

Forwards in football don't play defense so not sure why him contributing nothing on that end is relevant.

Saying Messi is the best player or anywhere near the best either means you're such a massive stan that you have zero reason, or you're retarded. If his name wasn't Messi and he played the same way, he would have never been up for consideration.

It means neither.

Go to SofaScore and compare Messi in 2014 to some of the best WC runs ever. He trails the very best like Pele 70, Cruyff 74, Maradona 86, Ronaldo 02 and a few others but his metrics are very strong across the board. Acting like he didn't deserve the Golden Ball is also weird. The only two other candidates were Robben and James. Robben's Netherlands lost to Messi's Argentina and Messi was better than Robben in that match. And James's Colombia lost in the QF.

[hold this L]

It's not that simple. Messi's goals won them all 3 group stage matches. And he was brilliant against Switzerland not just for the assist but he created so many chances in that match. Now sure his QF to F run isn't legendary but earlier rounds still count for a lot especially when his contributions were needed.

Forwards in football don't play defense so not sure why him contributing nothing on that end is relevant.



It means neither.

Go to SofaScore and compare Messi in 2014 to some of the best WC runs ever. He trails the very best like Pele 70, Cruyff 74, Maradona 86, Ronaldo 02 and a few others but his metrics are very strong across the board. Acting like he didn't deserve the Golden Ball is also weird. The only two other candidates were Robben and James. Robben's Netherlands lost to Messi's Argentina and Messi was better than Robben in that match. And James's Colombia lost in the QF.

Stop mentioning the group stage, it's moronic. Nobody has EVER.. in the history of the sport gave a single f*ck about the group stages of the Euros, WC, or Champions League. except for Messi's performance in 2014. Yes they needed him in the group stage, its also the group stage and it shouldn't mean shit about how good someone is in the tourney.

He's the best player ever, but this is the big problem with the fanbase, they lack any semblance of objectivity. You sound like a complete retard every time you defend Messi, because you kiss his ass and he can do no wrong. You can talk about stats and useless ratings all you want (imagine comparing Messi's mediocre 2014 performance to Pele or Cruyff ). Messi is a massive liability defensively every time he's been on the field throughout his career, and others have to make up for it. This is fine because he is so great offensively that it doesn't matter if others have to run and work harder to make up for it. Mascherano was easily much more important and better than him in the tournament. Without him, they are a completely forgotten team in that tourney. You can replace Messi in the entire KO for a good attacker and it changes nothing.

[dankok8]

Stop mentioning the group stage, it's moronic. Nobody has EVER.. in the history of the sport gave a single f*ck about the group stages of the Euros, WC, or Champions League. except for Messi's performance in 2014. Yes they needed him in the group stage, its also the group stage and it shouldn't mean shit about how good someone is in the tourney.

He's the best player ever, but this is the big problem with the fanbase, they lack any semblance of objectivity. You sound like a complete retard every time you defend Messi, because you kiss his ass and he can do no wrong. You can talk about stats and useless ratings all you want (imagine comparing Messi's mediocre 2014 performance to Pele or Cruyff ). Messi is a massive liability defensively every time he's been on the field throughout his career, and others have to make up for it. This is fine because he is so great offensively that it doesn't matter if others have to run and work harder to make up for it. Mascherano was easily much more important and better than him in the tournament. Without him, they are a completely forgotten team in that tourney. You can replace Messi in the entire KO for a good attacker and it changes nothing.

Group stage doesn't matter when Germany hammers Saudi Arabia 8-0. But when 2014 Argentina beats Iran 1-0 thanks to a long range bomb by Messi in the final minutes, then it matters. Messi's goals in the 2014 group stages were DECISIVE GOALS. Sure he can do wrong. I would have liked Messi to be better in the Final against Germany where he had an ok game as opposed to a superb game which you kind of hope for from a GOAT candidate.

If the 2022 WC run never happened and there is always a high degree of luck involved in a single tournament, Messi's legacy would have had that "He never won the World Cup" but really more importantly "He never played like a GOAT in the World Cup" and the latter to me is much more damning. Because for a GOAT candidate having a top 15 ish greatest WC run ever, which 2014 Messi was, isn't good enough. It needs to be a legendary defining string of performances. If the 2022 WC never happened, I would have been left looking at Messi's career thinking that I want more. So I totally get what you're trying to say but I think you're a bit harsh. I said Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, R9 best WC runs and heck add the likes of Eusebio, Rossi, Kempes, Romario... all were clearly ahead of 2014 Messi so not sure what that facepalm is for.

[ArbitraryWater]

dankok hypes up group stages and R16 of CL also cause Messi doesnt lag behind Ronaldo that much in those two

"they matter just as much man!"



yeah, if you have a Wilt-like performance record