What are you listening to?

[72-10]

First I thought you'd mean production wise you think they have the worst sound I kind of would've agreed, atleast between those mentioned band - albeit the Stones' production until Let it Bleed was shit aswell, but that was before LZ even debuted. The songs themselves are a matter of taste.

JPJ staying on the root or following the guitar too much is a necessity. The other bands you mentioned have way more open, none riff based music. Much easier employing a free flowing style there. It's hard to do that on riffs without making it a mess. What I really dig is doing counter melodies to the riffs.

That's also why imo JPJ shines most on the tunes Page doesn't. Lemon song being the exception, but blues is easier to keep together.

It's a good point about the Zeppelin riffs. Personally I like the Stones' murky sound on early stuff produced by Andrew Moog Oldham. I also like how a lot of their tunes are piano driven.

[72-10]

Had to at least address this part.

Who synthesized the folk sound and the hard rock sound like Zeppelin (a la Stairway, Ramble On, etc.)?

Who sounded like Plant before Plant?

In general, I believe drummers would be offended by this statement. John Bonham was a pioneer.

Who wrote anything that sounds anything like Kashmir? No Quarter? When the Levee Breaks? The Rain Song?

You say they are less original, I say you just don't like them.

Right, but they're still less original than the other four bands, and I think you could say this rather objectively. Zeppelin drew more on their influences than the other bands did.

[Prometheus]

Right, but they're still less original than the other four bands, and I think you could say this rather objectively. Zeppelin drew more on their influences than the other bands did.

I agree afa Floyd, Beatles, the Who... and as for the Stones I suppose I'll concede that I don't know their catalog as comprehensively as I know Zeppelin's.

Name a few Stones songs that aren't as mainstream? Maybe I'll come away with a better appreciation for them.

[72-10]

I agree afa Floyd, Beatles, the Who... and as for the Stones I suppose I'll concede that I don't know their catalog as comprehensively as I know Zeppelin's.

Name a few Stones songs that aren't as mainstream? Maybe I'll come away with a better appreciation for them.

Forgot to mention Zeppelin's awful lyrics as a reason that makes it difficult to enjoy their music, despite it being the most obvious and self-evident reason. The Stones are some of the most original songwriters there are during their 60s-early 70s period, and Jagger-Richards is probably the 4th best songwriters in the history of the genre after Lennon-McCartney, Leiber-Stoller and Brian Wilson, and they never straight stole lyrics from other recording artists.

[Prometheus]

Forgot to mention Zeppelin's awful lyrics as a reason that makes it difficult to enjoy their music, despite it being the most obvious and self-evident reason. The Stones are some of the most original songwriters there are during their 60s-early 70s period, and Jagger-Richards is probably the 4th best songwriters in the history of the genre after Lennon-McCartney, Leiber-Stoller and Brian Wilson, and they never straight stole lyrics from other recording artists.

yea yea i hear u

hit me with some stones songs. i know the hits

[72-10]

yea yea i hear u

hit me with some stones songs. i know the hits

So outside of all those hits they had, most of the material on their four classic album run (plus Get Yer Ya's Ya's Out) is pristine. Examples might include Jigsaw Puzzle, Moonlight Mile, You Got the Silver (probably the worst song on the album, but even this is great, and Keith sings this really well, in my opinion).

[Overdrive]

So outside of all those hits they had, most of the material on their four classic album run (plus Get Yer Ya's Ya's Out) is pristine. Examples might include Jigsaw Puzzle, Moonlight Mile, You Got the Silver (probably the worst song on the album, but even this is great, and Keith sings this really well, in my opinion).

Got to add from the peak albums: I got the Blues, Let it loose, Sister Morphine and Midnight Rambler.

[Prometheus]

So outside of all those hits they had, most of the material on their four classic album run (plus Get Yer Ya's Ya's Out) is pristine. Examples might include Jigsaw Puzzle, Moonlight Mile, You Got the Silver (probably the worst song on the album, but even this is great, and Keith sings this really well, in my opinion).

They have a lot of albums. Are you referring to Beggars Banquet and the next three up to Exile?

[Prometheus]

I'm already glad I asked. Jigsaw Puzzle is a great song! It's very enigmatic.

I don't like the Who much though

[Overdrive]

I'm already glad I asked. Jigsaw Puzzle is a great song! It's very enigmatic.

I don't like the Who much though

Try "Salt of the Earth" from that album. It's Keith singing the first verse and some foreshadowing of what's tcome the next years.

[Prometheus]

I am glad we had this talk because I've had a good morning listening to the Stones, but this is still a funny/confusing one to walk back. I was trying to unbox what you originally said, which was:

if it has its own distinct sound there's a good chance it's Hendrix or Clapton, or The Who

Which is silly, first of all... there are plenty of tones which are just as immediately recognizable, even when that's a bad thing - when I hear SRV, I know it's him within a half a second, even if I've never heard the track. Robert Fripp is more unique than... anyone else perhaps. Et cetera

But then that somehow became:

True, but I think certain tunesmiths get a better sound out of their tunes. For example, I think Led Zeppelin are clearly the worst sounding band out of the top five bands of all time (Beatles, Stones, Who, Zep, Floyd).

Do you see why I'm confused? This statement has nothing to do with the previous one

It's just a statement of preference. And it's funny, because it grew out of this idea of "its own distinct sound" and even if you don't prefer Page, he sounds more like himself (and less like anyone else) than Lennon, Harrison, McCartney, Richards... I would argue Gilmour too - perhaps every guitar player from the aforementioned groups except maybe PT.

It's pretty simple; I don't think they sound as good as those other four bands I've mentioned. I think they sound a bit harsh. I guess it's partly attributable to Page's guitar tone, which I think is not particularly pleasing to the ear. It's probably also their lack of melody as well as songwriting craftsmanship, such as including a hook, chorus or bridge, or the fact that unlike the other bands there's one real singer in the band, and any backup vocals provided aren't as good as backup vocals from the other bands (harmony).

Due to my music taste, I probably prefer when the bass plays a more prominent, kinetic role in the music as well. Jones plays root notes way too much for my liking, mimicking the guitar lines too much. I'm also not a big fan of Plant's vocals.

And they're so clearly the least original of the five bands here.

So, yeah, on the whole I'd have to say Led Zeppelin are actually kind of musically lacking and instead wank too much on their instruments.

I also think they have less replay value than those other four bands.

All cool. I disagree, but you like what you like. Just odd to pretend it's anything beyond presonal taste.

Right, but they're still less original than the other four bands, and I think you could say this rather objectively. Zeppelin drew more on their influences than the other bands did.

I can maybe agree with this. Still - I don't hear who drove so far away from chord progressions toward riff-based songs before Zeppelin. I don't hear as big a leap from Howlin Wolf to Elvis as I hear from Elvis to Robert Plant. I like music with a very strong rhythmic pulse... and to me, Bonham/Page made Zeppelin far more rhythmically satisfying - like on a completely different strata - than anything by the Beatles or Stones or Clapton. So to me (with the disclaimer that I am not a drummer) Bonham alone makes Zeppelin extremely innovative (and drummers with whom I've spoken agree).

Besides, there are innovators and culminators. I've always seen Zeppelin as more of a culmination of rock than an innovation.

The best thing you said all day was that they have shitty lyrics. Mostly that is true - I think a lot of the time Plant just wanted to write music for people to f*ck to. At least in the early days. Probably why it's so rhythmic. But yeah a lot of dull lyrics - but then a lot of good ones too. Paul McCartney wrote a lot of really stupid, shitty lyrics too and all we ever do is suck his dick as a songwriter.

[Prometheus]

Try "Salt of the Earth" from that album. It's Keith singing the first verse and some foreshadowing of what's tcome the next years.

Beautiful. Keith sounds like shit though

I never appreciated the Stones' poetry until today. Always enjoyed the hits, but never enough to dig into the rest of their stuff. Gotta say I'm deeply impressed with the lyricism.

[Overdrive]

Beautiful. Keith sounds like shit though

I never appreciated the Stones' poetry until today. Always enjoyed the hits, but never enough to dig into the rest of their stuff. Gotta say I'm deeply impressed with the lyricism.

I love him, sounds like a teethless bum singing. Total contrast to Jagger.

[72-10]

Well, Prometheus, I don't really have time to read your walls of text, but I was referring to my own music taste, so I fail to see why you delved off into another direction with the discussion.

That would make sense that you'd like a strong rhythmic pulse if you're a drummer.

[72-10]

Beautiful. Keith sounds like shit though

I never appreciated the Stones' poetry until today. Always enjoyed the hits, but never enough to dig into the rest of their stuff. Gotta say I'm deeply impressed with the lyricism.

Well, I can see that you can talk a bunch of shit. What do you think of Mother's Little Helper? Good lyrics? How about No Expectations? Good lyrics? How about Street Fighting Man? Good lyrics? They all kick the crap out of anything Zeppelin ever offered up lyrically.

You can tell they knew how to bring the instruments together in a compositional manner and craft some songs.