Lebron or Bird?

[Turbo Slayer]

For those people still convinced that Larry Bird was the better passer despite all of the evidence posted above.

Watch this video.



You have to ADMIT that LeBron was one of the best passers EVER. If you all dont then man you all missing out big time.

[Turbo Slayer]

About clutch shooting?

Well hopefully I dont need to explain that.

[red1]

turbo slayer you make a very weak case.



all you have to say is 3 finals MVPs. all of the other accolades and stats already reflect who the better player was.

[Turbo Slayer]

turbo slayer you make a very weak case.



all you have to say is 3 finals MVPs. all of the other accolades and stats already reflect who the better player was.

[red1]

just post this image. and then when they inevitably retort with the finals record or buh buh ray allen then you can mention all of the all-time accolades and success like all-time playoff leading scorer or all NBA first teams etc:

[Turbo Slayer]

How about win shares? I could on and on with evidence.

LeBron- 3rd ALLTIME- 236.12

Larry is 24th ALLTIME-145.83

[Turbo Slayer]

PER?

LeBron: 27.5

Larry: 23.5

[Turbo Slayer]

BPM:

LeBron: 10.2

Larry: 6.9

[Turbo Slayer]

DBPM:

LeBron: 2.5

Larry: 1.5

DWS:

LeBron: 16

Larry: 11

Ready for the dagger?

OWS:

LeBron James: 35.1

Larry Bird: 13.8

[Turbo Slayer]

LeBron is the better shooter overall.

Here is TS%. TS% is a stat that takes in account 2 pointer, 3 pointers, and FTs.

LeBron James TS%58

Larry Bird TS%55

[Turbo Slayer]

3PAr defines that the percentage of FG attempts from 3 point range.

Larry-.081

LBJ-.223

It would appear that LBJ attempted more than Larry Bird on similiar/better efficiency.

[Turbo Slayer]

Overall, my conclusion is that LBJ is better in every facet of the basketball game. My argument is backed with SOLID evidence.

Iḿ no hater of Larry Bird. I appreciate on everything he had done for the game including that famous steal and the basketball 3 point contest, but objectivity speaking theres NO possible way Larry could be ranked over LeBron James.

King James is better than Larry Legend.

I appreciate both players.

For more information PLEASE check my earlier posts( #281, #282, #284, #285, #286, #287, #291, #292, #293, #294, #295, and #296.)

Finals Records are NEVER a good thing to judge. Stats imo are a better way to judge a player.

Well, I gotta eat lunch. Turbo Slayer, out (for now).

[HoopsNY]

Yeah, no. LeBron is a significantly better defender and it's not even close. Dude was a legit DPOY contender at his best.

Hi aj. Thank you for your insight. I do think that it is debatable as to who was the better defender. However, claiming that LeBron was "significantly" better is a stretch. If you want significantly better than Bird defensively, then you're talking about guys like MJ, Hakeem, Rodman, Payton, or Ben Wallace. But LeBron is none of those guys and quite frankly, Bird wasn't either.

I'm also wondering if you knew that just like LeBron was in contention for DPOY, then so was Bird. Bird finished tied 3rd in the 1982-83 DPOY voting. Keep in mind, where on the ball defense is concerned, Bird's best years were when he played PF, his original position. The award only started in the 1982-83, which was Bird's 4th season in the league. He could have easily been in contention the previous years. Bird's defense was THAT good.

As a SF, he became arguably the best help defender the league had seen. So while I will admit that LeBron at his peak was a stellar defender, I think Bird's defense (at least in your eyes) is underrated. The two are closer defensively than I think most people would like to admit.

[Turbo Slayer]

Hi aj. Thank you for your insight. I do think that it is debatable as to who was the better defender. However, claiming that LeBron was "significantly" better is a stretch. If you want significantly better than Bird defensively, then you're talking about guys like MJ, Hakeem, Rodman, Payton, or Ben Wallace. But LeBron is none of those guys and quite frankly, Bird wasn't either.

I'm also wondering if you knew that just like LeBron was in contention for DPOY, then so was Bird. Bird finished tied 3rd in the 1982-83 DPOY voting. Keep in mind, where on the ball defense is concerned, Bird's best years were when he played PF, his original position. The award only started in the 1982-83, which was Bird's 4th season in the league. He could have easily been in contention the previous years. Bird's defense was THAT good.

As a SF, he became arguably the best help defender the league had seen. So while I will admit that LeBron at his peak was a stellar defender, I think Bird's defense (at least in your eyes) is underrated. The two are closer defensively than I think most people would like to admit.

What was Birds peak?

[HoopsNY]

Overall, my conclusion is that LBJ is better in every facet of the basketball game. My argument is backed with SOLID evidence.

Iḿ no hater of Larry Bird. I appreciate on everything he had done for the game including that famous steal and the basketball 3 point contest, but objectivity speaking theres NO possible way Larry could be ranked over LeBron James.

King James is better than Larry Legend.

I appreciate both players.

For more information PLEASE check my earlier posts( #281, #282, #284, #285, #286, #287, #291, #292, #293, #294, #295, and #296.)

Finals Records are NEVER a good thing to judge. Stats imo are a better way to judge a player.

Well, I gotta eat lunch. Turbo Slayer, out (for now).

Hi Turbo Slayer. It's nice to see someone attempting to post statistics to at least back their arguments up. However, I do think you have misinterpreted some of them.

For one, you seem to think that LeBron is better than Larry where 3 pointers are concerned. It should be known that Lebron has shot a little over 34% for his career from deep, while Larry shot a little less than 38% for his. In addition, Larry did this with hand-checking being prevalent in the league, thus allowing perimeter defenders to make it difficult for perimeter shooters to attempt threes, let alone make them. Remove the rules and incorporate a much more 3pt friendly game, and I believe Larry shoots anywhere from 40-42% for his career from deep.

It also true that TS% factors in all field goal attempts and free throw attempts, but the statistic is still skewed when judging shooters. For example, DeAndre Jordan - historically - has the best TS%. This doesn't mean that he is a better shooter than anyone else, historically. In fact, he clearly isn't.

What we should focus on is Bird and Lebron's ability from beyond 10 feet. 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3pt and above. Bird was one of the greatest shooters of all time. His name is discussed with other great shooters such as Reggie Miller, Stephen Curry, and Ray Allen. Where Lebron, careerwise, has been a sub-par mid-range shooter and free throw shooter. Bird's 3pt % and Fth% are higher, significantly. In this particular case, it is clear who was the better shooter and I don't believe there is any debate concerning that.

Also, metrics like Win Shares are cumulative statistics. If you look at what Bird did with DWS per game, he's actually higher than LeBron. In addition, LeBron attempted more three pointers because this era allows for it. The three point shot only came into existence in 1979, Larry's first year. Teams shot horribly from 3pt range as it simply was not used or was seen as a low percentage shot which should not be attempted. After Bird's first 5 seasons, he took off, particularly when he switched to the SF position. A bit of context helps to understand statistics. For example, players could be benched in the 80s if they attempted a 3 pointer outside of the plays that were created by coaches.

Larry's injuries play a major role in the decline of his postseason numbers, particularly in 1990-1992. But there is no debate, LeBron is the better postseason performer. I think we should parallel statistics with context, which provides a much bigger picture.