You Live In A Dystopia When The Government Has To Force Free Speech On Academia

[Kblaze8855]

Do you not know what the difference is between a private event and a public university? Nancy Pelosi speaking at the NRA is a bad comparison.

The line is blurred by compartmentalization. Private schools have government funding in ways if you consider research....which obviously we are.

And the issue was one of expectations of your crowd anyway. A state fair gets government money....doesnt mean if Pelosi goes to the Alabama state fair to talk to a few Alabama liberals she should have the feds keep the majority of people who dont care for her quiet. She shouldnt be able to claim they get government money and thus....cant let people with opposing opinions be loud near her.

Dont go to a place where you are hated and expect a warm reception.

You have a reasonable expectation of safety. Not of people who hate you to be quiet. You have free speech. They have free speech. 12 thousand people will drown you out. Which is why you go talk to friendly crowds. Trump isnt going to a black lives matter rally to talk. He goes where most people with access WANT to hear him.

Its common sense.

[Hawker]

The line is blurred by compartmentalization. Private schools have government funding in ways if you consider research....which obviously we are.

And the issue was one of expectations of your crowd anyway. A state fair gets government money....doesnt mean if Pelosi goes to the Alabama state fair to talk to a few Alabama liberals she should have the feds keep the majority of people who dont care for her quiet. She shouldnt be able to claim they get government money and thus....cant let people with opposing opinions be loud near her.

Dont go to a place where you are hated and expect a warm reception.

You have a reasonable expectation of safety. Not of people who hate you to be quiet. You have free speech. They have free speech. 12 thousand people will drown you out. Which is why you go talk to friendly crowds. Trump isnt going to a black lives matter rally to talk. He goes where most people with access WANT to hear him.

Its common sense.

People from Alabama probably wouldn't care enough to be honest.

The line is blurred but we're clearly talking about public schools. But with that said - if you do receive government funding and you're clearly biased then that should definitely be looked into. These schools shouldn't be weaponized for a specific point of view.

It's really no different than discrimniation based on race, sexual orientation etc. Was forced integration a good idea? Should the blacks have gone elsewhere?

Trump isn't going to a BLM rally because again it's a private rally. You're blurring it for the sake of the argument when you know the difference.

Jordan Peterson sells out everywhere he goes - clearly lots of people want to see him yet there's tons of protests outside every time he speaks. Same with Shapiro etc. So people DO want to hear him. Bad argument.

[Kblaze8855]

Someone wants to hear everyone. Somewhere. But you dont go where the great majority DONT....and expect them to be quiet. They know the people are gonna do it before they get there. They KNOW it. They can go to places where 90% of the people want to hear them speak...instead of the inverse....if they want a warm reception.

The college itself is not protesting. Individual there are.....individuals who dont even go to the school are when its an open campus. Even when employees protest...it isnt the school itself. Its just people saying shit you dont like. Its a free speech issue both ways. But one side has a LOT more people in these cases...so whats expected?

[Akrazotile]

Someone wants to hear everyone. Somewhere. But you dont go where the great majority DONT....and expect them to be quiet. They know the people are gonna do it before they get there. They KNOW it. They can go to places where 90% of the people want to hear them speak...instead of the inverse....if they want a warm reception.

The college itself is not protesting. Individual there are.....individuals who dont even go to the school are when its an open campus. Even when employees protest...it isnt the school itself. Its just people saying shit you dont like. Its a free speech issue both ways. But one side has a LOT more people in these cases...so whats expected?

People in charge of establishments are accountable for the activity that goes on there, especially when theyre aware of it.

Impediment of free speech is a civil violation and universities bear responsibility. If they know it’s happenig and make no attempt to address it, that is akin to sanctioning it.

Anyway, thats the last Ill say in this thread, Hawker Id advise you not to waste your time further but it’s your call.

Some people apparently get a thrill from endlessly defending a faulty argument. It’s the only explanation. Id just let them be.

[Kblaze8855]

And if you cant "weaponize" anyone getting government funding to push a political agenda....

What about religious schools pushing conservative agendas? Even ignoring it in young children(where its most effective)...it happens with universities too.

Bob Jones right up the street from me is conservative as hell. They only started allowing interracial dating in the 2000s. Because of that policy they couldnt get federal money for a while. But now they can and do. They are considered a non profit again. Conservative speakers there all the time. Get generally warm welcome.

The school being biased a problem?

It isnt to me. I know what Bob Jones is. I wouldnt go expecting people to have my opinions. The staff...the student...they go because thats what they are looking for. I didnt...because it isnt what I was looking for.

I dont support them...but I dont expect them to support me either.

[Kblaze8855]

Impediment of free speech is a civil violation and universities bear responsibility. If they know it’s happenig and make no attempt to address it, that is akin to sanctioning it.

Telling the other side they cant speak(while non violent) is a violation...which you seem to not grasp. The free speech zones needed to keep people from protesting near speakers....are in some states...ILLEGAL...with no federal agency to create and enforce them anyway. Once the states are out...as they would be...there is nobody to police it.

Youre complaining about shit with no realistic solution short of tyranny like the global warming alarmists.

[dude77]

The obvious response is to just not book conservative speakers to begin with

so if a restaurant is trying to serve blacks but keeps getting protests, the solution is to just not serve blacks ? funny a black person, of all people, being ok with this .. apparently discrimination only matters when blacks are being discriminated against .. civil rights and shit

[Kblaze8855]

Not serving blacks....you would have federal and state LEO with jurisdiction to stop it. Who sets up the free speech zones when the state government doesnt send in the police...which they wouldnt?

The FBI? DEA? Who? The secret service?

Who is moving 1,000 people to the other side of the campus? And what do you do in the states that have laws preventing it? There are 18 states that have passed it or have introduced it. What is the ground level practical way to prevent protesters drowning out a speaker when state laws prevents setting up a place you can move them?

[Kblaze8855]

funny a black person, of all people, being ok with this .. apparently discrimination only matters when blacks are being discriminated against .. civil rights and shit

Its discrimination not to allow black or white or gay people to attend. It is not discrimination not to invite them to speak.

Bob Jones is not as likely to have someone with my opinions speak as they are someone with yours.

That isnt discriminating against me.

Is it really discrimination to not invite a transgender advocate to speak at your school if you dont believe in it? How is the government supposed to FORCE you...to have them come speak?

[dude77]

ok discrimination is the wrong word but still wrong we can agree .. I should clarify I'm only referring to public schools .. but now who decides what the school believes in .. the students make up the school so let them decide ..

how about the universities manage the protesters who get violent(arresting, policing etc) and making sure the other party's free speech isn't infringed .. you would think this would be a worthy cause to do so .. ya know . .in the name of free speech ..

but they get lax and lazy and let these protesters do their thing and eventually shut down these speakers .. almost as if they really don't mind these speakers being shut down .. they sure don't have a problem allowing all the liberal garbage being shoved down the throats of the student body which is being paid by the students(or taxpayers) by the way smh .. why is this being made to be so complicated ?

[Kblaze8855]

Because law isnt simple when you have 3 branches that dont agree. Id like to think everyone(reasonable) could agree that violent protesting should be stopped. But that isnt usually it.

Its just....people making noise. Disrupting your speech.

Dick move?

Absolutely.

Illegal? Im not sure how.

Take a minute and go read the free speech zone law that came out of the vietnam protests at colleges. Its been an issue for a LONG time and some of the people on your side passing these anti free speech zone laws....actually make it hard to stop protesters.

Just go read about it if you think it isnt complicated. Go look into it then tell me what you think. There are cases out the ass on this subject....

[Akrazotile]

Because law isnt simple when you have 3 branches that dont agree. Id like to think everyone(reasonable) could agree that violent protesting should be stopped. But that isnt usually it.

Its just....people making noise. Disrupting your speech.

Dick move?

Absolutely.

Illegal? Im not sure how.

Take a minute and go read the free speech zone law that came out of the vietnam protests at colleges. Its been an issue for a LONG time and some of the people on your side passing these anti free speech zone laws....actually make it hard to stop protesters.

Just go read about it if you think it isnt complicated. Go look into it then tell me what you think. There are cases out the ass on this subject....

So if I go stand outside a calculus class with a megaphone, a whistle, a drum, etc I can stand there and make all the noise I want, even at the expense of people trying to learn?

You think the university will protect my free speech in that instance? If they can find grounds to remove me in that case - which they would - they can obviously find grounds to remove people who are obviously trying to disrupt others who want to learn via guest speaker.

If colleges had parades going thru the hallway nonstop and kids could never learn or focus and nobody learned anything, would they be worth funding with your tax dollars?

People are there to learn. If thats being purposely disrupted, it isnt a free speech issue, it’s a harassment/disturbance issue. A legal issue.




I know I shouldnt have even responded

[Kblaze8855]

If you want to go down a making noise means protesting isnt free speech path we have very different cases to study. If you actually care(I assume not) read up on the horn honking as free expression cases. It comes down to the intent of your noise. Came up in new york with the occupy wall street issue...that also spawned the free speech zone law.

[Akrazotile]

If you want to go down a making noise means protesting isnt free speech path we have very different cases to study. If you actually care(I assume not) read up on the horn honking as free expression cases. It comes down to the intent of your noise. Came up in new york with the occupy wall street issue...that also spawned the free speech zone law.

Yeah that’s exactly what I just said.

Thank you for reiterating.

Goodnight kblaze.