Which of these 90s PGs is Lowry better than?

[superduper]

I did that very quickly over the course of the 90's, and in any given year I think he's out of your top 5. The 2nd tier/mid-tier 90's PGs had guys like Kenny Anderson, Rod Strickland, Mookie Blaylock, Terry Porter, Mark Jackson, Terrell Brandon, Nick Van Exel, Marbury, Damon Stoudamire on the Raptors, Sam Cassell. The top tier transitioned from Magic, Stockton, Isiah, KJ, Price to Penny, T.Hardaway, Kidd, Payton. The 10's have more 'top tier' PGs but I would say the 90's had a larger set of 'really good/not quite great' PGs that Lowry is likely to fall into. Just a quick 'year by year' breakdown on my part....

Extremely high IQ post

[NBAGOAT]

I did that very quickly over the course of the 90's, and in any given year I think he's out of your top 5. The 2nd tier/mid-tier 90's PGs had guys like Kenny Anderson, Rod Strickland, Mookie Blaylock, Terry Porter, Mark Jackson, Terrell Brandon, Nick Van Exel, Marbury, Damon Stoudamire on the Raptors, Sam Cassell. The top tier transitioned from Magic, Stockton, Isiah, KJ, Price to Penny, T.Hardaway, Kidd, Payton. The 10's have more 'top tier' PGs but I would say the 90's had a larger set of 'really good/not quite great' PGs that Lowry is likely to fall into. I'd also argue that the 10's style of play facilitates more PGs being lead offensive weapons less so than the 90's. Guys like Rod Strickland, Mark Price, Chris Jackson as lead guards would be greater offensive threats today, compared to the 17-20 ppg you saw them produce 25 years ago

lowry this year definitely. 16-17 lowry maybe not however. I think he's clearly above most of the good/great guys. Like in a year like 92 which I'll cherrypick since magic retired and isiah is at the end of his career. I'm only taking stockton, price, kj clearly over him(and i have some doubts about kj even as he declined some too). Then it's really just just hardaway and porter. Lowry might not be top 5 but I lean yes.

[Phoenix]

lowry this year definitely. 16-17 lowry maybe not however. I think he's clearly above most of the good/great guys. Like in a year like 92 which I'll cherrypick since magic retired and isiah is at the end of his career. I'm only taking stockton, price, kj clearly over him(and i have some doubts about kj even as he declined some too). Then it's really just just hardaway and porter. Lowry might not be top 5 but I lean yes.

Even in 92 once you get past Stockton, Price and KJ I think Tim Hardaway was clearly better, both the pre-injury Warriors version and the Heat version when he was paired with Mourning. Terry Porter in 92 is a close call. It's too close a call with guys like Jackson, Brandon and Strickland in the mid 90's to say he's clearly/definitively better. Penny was clearly better between 95 and 97. Payton was clearly better. Kidd was clearly better from about 96 onwards. All of them were playing at the same point. I think too much time has passed to remember how good the 90's 'really good' PGs may have been. If Lowry is top 5 in any year he's scrapping through by the skin of his teeth, but there are fair arguments for some of those other guys I listed to just throw him in there as a consensus type pick.

[NBAGOAT]

Even in 92 once you get past Stockton, Price and KJ I think Tim Hardaway was clearly better, both the pre-injury Warriors version and the Heat version when he was paired with Mourning. Terry Porter in 92 is a close call. It's too close a call with guys like Jackson, Brandon and Strickland in the mid 90's to say he's clearly/definitively better. Penny was clearly better between 95 and 97. Payton was clearly better. Kidd was clearly better from about 96 onwards. All of them were playing at the same point. I think too much time has passed to remember how good the 90's 'really good' PGs may have been. If Lowry is top 5 in any year he's scrapping through by the skin of his teeth, but I'm not seeing it personally.

i can see it for hardaway and porter. i just dont really see it for jackson and strickland(brandon for a few years sure). Impact stuff is even higher on his prime than I am(fringe all-nba defense which the eye test kind of supports). I agree with the rest of what you said, lowry's window would be the early to mid 90s most likely. Let's pick say 97 even still however. It's payton, stockton, penny, kidd, tim, brandon and not much else. 7th is certainly arguable.

From another direction as a kind of devil's advocate argument, toronto was winning 50-60 for a 3 year period from 16-18 with a good srs so the weak east isnt a counterargument. They had good depth but didnt even have a great 3rd guy. some give credit to derozan but most statistical evidence seems to point to him as like at best a weak all star. Ik some people even think of him as a negative player. Then it's gotta be lowry who carried them hard and had a huge impact. I highly doubt strickland or jackson could carry the 16 raptors to even 50 wins let alone 56.

[Phoenix]

i can see it for hardaway and porter. i just dont really see it for jackson and strickland(brandon for a few years sure). Impact stuff is even higher on his prime than I am(fringe all-nba defense which the eye test kind of supports). I agree with the rest of what you said, lowry's window would be the early to mid 90s most likely. Let's pick say 97 even still however. It's payton, stockton, penny, kidd, tim, brandon and not much else. 7th is certainly arguable.

From another direction as a kind of devil's advocate argument, toronto was winning 50-60 for a 3 year period from 16-18 with a good srs so the weak east isnt a counterargument. They had good depth but didnt even have a great 3rd guy. some give credit to derozan but most statistical evidence seems to point to him as like at best a weak all star. Ik some people even think of him as a negative player. Then it's gotta be lowry who carried them hard and had a huge impact. I highly doubt strickland or jackson could carry the 16 raptors to even 50 wins let alone 56.

Here's the thing with me, in any given year there's at least 4 clearly better PGs and a couple who are debatable. If you are sticking him into a top 5 in any given year you'd have to handpick one that favors sticking him in there because someone else's injury dropped them out temporarily. Like for example, Tim Hardaway missed the 94 year so you can slide him in there if you like. But then Timmy bounced back. Same for KJ around 94 or 95. Penny's knee was fukked around 1998, oh good now we can slide him in there after Kidd, Payton, and T.Hardaway while standing on an argument that he was definitively better than Strickland, Marbury, Cassell or even Stockton that year (when in reality that's an extremely debatable position with those players). Was he better than 97 and 98 Iverson coming into the league before he switched over to SG in 99?

TDLR; he's kind of on the bubble, which is something that could reasonably be said of at least 2-3 other guys in terms of 'top 5' status at any point in the decade.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He wasn

[superduper]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]He wasn

[NBAGOAT]

Here's the thing with me, in any given year there's at least 4 clearly better PGs and a couple who are debatable. If you are sticking him into a top 5 in any given year you'd have to handpick one that favors sticking him in there because someone else's injury dropped them out temporarily. Like for example, Tim Hardaway missed the 94 year so you can slide him in there if you like. But then Timmy bounced back. Same for KJ around 94 or 95. Penny's knee was fukked around 1998, oh good now we can slide him in there after Kidd, Payton, and T.Hardaway while standing on an argument that he was definitively better than Strickland, Marbury, Cassell or even Stockton that year (when in reality that's an extremely debatable position with those players). Was he better than 97 and 98 Iverson coming into the league before he switched over to SG in 99?

TDLR; he's kind of on the bubble, which is something that could reasonably be said of at least 2-3 other guys in terms of 'top 5' status at any point in the decade.

I think we mostly agree then. I just think it's less debatable however with the second tier guys. like yes i'm taking prime lowry over the guys you listed besides maybe stockton, even young iverson. If we're talking this year's lowry sure. I mean they need to be taken with a grain of salt but impact stuff had lowry as not just a top 10 pg but player in 16 and 17.

Edit: for example i'm only considering some 00's year for cassell over him(mainly 04). I feel bad leaving out mookie however, he's got great defense and is an important contributor on a very good team in 97/98 at least

[Jay-B]

Lowry is no where near the guys mentioned by the OP from the 90

[Manny98]

I know that the idiot LeStans think that the 80s and 90s had players who were part time grocers for the extra income but we all know that wasn't true...that was in the 50s or 60s since salaries weren't that great but by the that 80s/90s era, being in the NBA was a full time job.

Don't waste your time with them, they're either trolling or really dumb

Jon Starks was a grocery bagger & Marc Eaton was a car mechanic

[Manny98]

Btw Curry,Kyrie,Westbrook and Lillard shit on every single point guard from that weak ass era

[superduper]

Jon Starks was a grocery bagger & Marc Eaton was a car mechanic

So how is Lowry borderline top 15 in grocery bagger era but undisputed top 5 in this era?

[Manny98]

So how is Lowry borderline top 15 in grocery bagger era but undisputed top 5 in this era?

I can only think of about 3 point guards from that era that are better than Lowry

[superduper]

I can only think of about 3 point guards from that era that are better than Lowry

Alright all opinions invalidated