Without trolling, can anyone refute this thesis intro on why Lebron isn't top 10?

[sdot_thadon]

Here's the truth. What player in the alltime top 10 won without good or veteran help? I'll throw some names out that are at least arguable top 10 ever.

Bird- won his 1st with a hof pg and Parish was an allstar that year. Mchale would become one he also would get a former mvp and a finals mvp as teammates eventually.

Magic- won his 1st with a fellow top 10 alltime great and guys like Wilkes and even added a former Mvp McAdoo at some point.

Kareem- same as above but add a guy who was once seen as the goat in Oscar Robertson.

Oscar Robertson- won his only chip with the guy above.

Bill Russell- began his career with a superstar and has probably had the most hall of fame teammates of anyone ever.

Wilt- won both of his chips on deep talented teams. The later was the 1st big 3 ever and didnt win the chip until Baylor called it quits.

Kobe- Had another top 10 guy as his lead dog. Then had an allstar veteran sidekick the 2nd go round amongst other vets.

Dirk- had a team full of vets.

Duncan- had an alltime great bigman coming in and has almost always had veteran teams some how.

Shaq- Had a top 10 guy as a 2nd option. Had some of the best wings of his era, along with plenty of veterans.

Hakeem- didn't have great talent but he had steady handed vets among his teammates.

Mike- The 2nd 3peat team was full of vets. The 1st 3peat team had a mixture of vets and youth. And don't forget, Scottie was already an established allstar before they won anything. Mike had perhaps the goat complimentary player to ever live.

So if your Op thesis is to hold any water I suppose that means we throw all the guys i mentioned out with Lebron and maybe we can make a new top 10 of guys no one knows right?


edit** also it's amazing what living in the lotto for a few years after you enter the league does for so-called "player development"

[jbryan1984]

Personally, he is #2 on my all time list and I find it crazy to think anyone could have him anywhere but 1-5. Just based on his title in Cleveland alone put him over the top because its like a Cinderella story that I believe will be a movie one day. Kid from NE Ohio gets drafted to his home team, leaves on the most controversial terms, comes back and beats the best team in NBA history. Not taking anything away from Kyrie's shot either, but obviously it would not of happened without him.

[TheBranStan]

[bullettooth]

[stalkerforlife]

Here's the truth. What player in the alltime top 10 won without good or veteran help? I'll throw some names out that are at least arguable top 10 ever.

Bird- won his 1st with a hof pg and Parish was an allstar that year. Mchale would become one he also would get a former mvp and a finals mvp as teammates eventually.

Magic- won his 1st with a fellow top 10 alltime great and guys like Wilkes and even added a former Mvp McAdoo at some point.

Kareem- same as above but add a guy who was once seen as the goat in Oscar Robertson.

Oscar Robertson- won his only chip with the guy above.

Bill Russell- began his career with a superstar and has probably had the most hall of fame teammates of anyone ever.

Wilt- won both of his chips on deep talented teams. The later was the 1st big 3 ever and didnt win the chip until Baylor called it quits.

Kobe- Had another top 10 guy as his lead dog. Then had an allstar veteran sidekick the 2nd go round amongst other vets.

Dirk- had a team full of vets.

Duncan- had an alltime great bigman coming in and has almost always had veteran teams some how.

Shaq- Had a top 10 guy as a 2nd option. Had some of the best wings of his era, along with plenty of veterans.

Hakeem- didn't have great talent but he had steady handed vets among his teammates.

Mike- The 2nd 3peat team was full of vets. The 1st 3peat team had a mixture of vets and youth. And don't forget, Scottie was already an established allstar before they won anything. Mike had perhaps the goat complimentary player to ever live.

So if your Op thesis is to hold any water I suppose that means we throw all the guys i mentioned out with Lebron and maybe we can make a new top 10 of guys no one knows right?


edit** also it's amazing what living in the lotto for a few years after you enter the league does for so-called "player development"

You could've saved a lot of time by saying "Every player needs 4 other guys on the court, but I have an agenda and I refuse to admit that my favorite player had more help and he got it by team hopping and collusion."

[sdot_thadon]

You could've saved a lot of time by saying "Every player needs 4 other guys on the court, but I have an agenda and I refuse to admit that my favorite player had more help and he got it by team hopping and collusion."

Or, instead of this dumpster worthy reply you could....i dunno tell me which players i mentioned had less help than Lebron and then help me throw the rest out of the top 10 with him because there wont be much left.

When we don't realize we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[CTbasketball92]

I just don't see how you can still talk yourself into thinking LeBron's not at least a top five player. Even his haters know he's at worst top 10.


LeBron is probably the greatest floor-riser ever, so even if he does stunt people's growth, it's worth it if they win 66 games like the cavs did in 2009. As far as ceilings go, though, DWade and Kyrie weren't inhibited by lebron, but when they were all together they were arguably All-Time great squads with their starting lineups.

Larry Bird and Magic played on utterly stacked teams and so did Kareem, and magic only won two more chips. Bird won the same amount. Thats three players you cant make an apples-to-apples comparison with.

Like then you have MJ...and sure, you can say he's better, but most impact metrics/stats place them at tied for No. 1. MJ never played with another great scorer so there was nothing to hinder. I'm sure his teammates would have hated him for taking 45 shots a game if he had a DWade/Kyrie on his team.

[egokiller]

I just don't see how you can still talk yourself into thinking LeBron's not at least a top five player. Even his haters know he's at worst top 10.


LeBron is probably the greatest floor-riser ever, so even if he does stunt people's growth, it's worth it if they win 66 games like the cavs did in 2009. As far as ceilings go, though, DWade and Kyrie weren't inhibited by lebron, but when they were all together they were arguably All-Time great squads with their starting lineups.

Larry Bird and Magic played on utterly stacked teams and so did Kareem, and magic only won two more chips. Bird won the same amount. Thats three players you cant make an apples-to-apples comparison with.

Like then you have MJ...and sure, you can say he's better, but most impact metrics/stats place them at tied for No. 1. MJ never played with another great scorer so there was nothing to hinder. I'm sure his teammates would have hated him for taking 45 shots a game if he had a DWade/Kyrie on his team.

The problem is that all the bullshit antics and drama pretty much move him out of the top 10 list and the only way to get him back in is to troll and pretend that all that shit doesn't exist and that this guy wasn't some stat padder that played in a weak conference. The same weak conference a guy from the west came to his first year with a new coach and got to the final also without guys like Love, Kyrie, Wade or Bosh. Just goes to show all those "appearances in a row in the east could have been done by any other top 5 player in the NBA at that time with a similar stacked team. KD out colluding him was the icing on the cake.

[Manny98]

It actually baffles me how OP has never been banned

He makes more LeBron bashing threads than SuperDuper and Pickernroller combined

But if you so much as criticise MJ = instant ban

[RealSkipBayless]

It actually baffles me how OP has never been banned

He makes more LeBron bashing threads than SuperDuper and Pickernroller combined

But if you so much as criticise MJ = instant ban

The KBald agenda.

[SouBeachTalents]

It actually baffles me how OP has never been banned

He makes more LeBron bashing threads than SuperDuper and Pickernroller combined

But if you so much as criticise MJ = instant ban

Dude's made hundreds of LeBron threads, literally hundreds. And he tries to play it off like LeBron ain't even top 10

[Kiddlovesnets]

This is going way too far, lebron is definitely top 10, though he

[ImKobe]

Kobe literally took the ball out of Steve Nash’s hands and made him a spot up shooter but he wasn’t ball dominant. K.

More like Nash had a career-altering injury his 2nd game with the Lakers and Kobe just became the facilitator for the team due to all the injuries and brought them back from like 8 games under .500 to having one of the best records in the league post-ASB (i believe 28-12 in their last 40 games) and Nash still averaged the same amount of points, just didn't dominate the ball in LA as much due to injuries and age slowing him down.

of course you would be retarded enough to bring up Steve Nash and not think about the effects of injury and him being 38-39 years old at that point.

[Elosha]

73 win team. Down 3-1. Led everyone in everything. If MJ had it in him to beat the 80s Celtics/pistons it would look something like that

Jordan's numbers against the 86 Celtics put LeBron's 2016 numbers (or any other numbers) to shame. The difference is that Jordan was playing with little talent, while LeBron had Kyrie to hit the vast majority of the big shots in 2016, while LeBron stood in the corner. LeBron had a great series no doubt, but he does nothing without Kyrie and probably also loses in 5 without the Green suspension.

[Elosha]

^ That being said, LBJ is clearly top 10. He's an ATG. I have him around 5-6. He could go higher or could go lower, depending on how his career plays out. He'll never be GOAT, but he could move up (or down) a spot or two.