GOAT Off-Ball Scorers List

[3ball]

Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.

Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"

The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...

Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions

In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession

Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games

Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6

For example, Pippen is a non-shooting ball-handler - the worst fit for Lebron's dribble skillset - so lebron would have zero rings with pip and it's unlikely pip develops into a HOF.
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[3ball]

^^^ whoops wrong thread...


Guys like Klay and Reggie Miller are lower volume, one-dimensional players off-ball

Only MJ and Bird finished possessions with sufficient volume and diversity to control games

MJ actually got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible (being the judge, jury and executioner of a possession) - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time and often deferring

[bigkingsfan]

Scottie Pippen

[Bronbron23]

Let's stick with post 1980 players, and list does NOT need to be in order. This list will also trend toward perimeter players since bigs are traditionally "off-ball"

I've got: Curry, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Klay Thompson, Bird off the top of my head. Maybe even a guy like Rip Hamilton or JJ Redick as honorable mentions?

Curry may very well be the goat but you should have mj on that list. He was an elite off ball mover also. It's an underrated part of his game because he was such a great iso scorer

[3ball]

Curry may very well be the goat but you should have mj on that list. He was an elite off ball mover also. It's an underrated part of his game because he was such a great iso scorer

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Catch-and-go's are off-ball too - not just catch-and-shoot[/COLOR]

Quick moves upon the catch (quick isos) are "off-ball" as well:








Part of MJ being the goat iso player was his ability to isolate QUICKLY, from anywhere, and after moving off-ball

[Manny98]

MJ is great off ball, better than LeBron and anyone in the top 10 but he's not even in the same tier as Curry,Miller and Klay just stop it

[LAmbruh]

Camping in the high post and barking at Harper/Kerr to feed you isn't impressive off ball game


He had to do this bc he wasn't good enough to break down players 1v1 with ball handling and get to his spots himself

[SouBeachTalents]

^^^ whoops wrong thread...


Guys like Klay and Reggie Miller are lower volume, one-dimensional players off-ball

Only MJ and Bird finished possessions with sufficient volume and diversity to control games

MJ actually got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible (being the judge, jury and executioner of a possession) - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time and often deferring

No it wasn't fakkit

[3ball]

MJ is great off ball, better than LeBron and anyone in the top 10 but he's not even in the [COLOR="Navy"]same tier as Curry,Miller and Klay[/COLOR] just stop it

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^^^^ they just stand there and shoot it, which MJ did a lot of too


But who has it off-ball like this?






[COLOR="Navy"]Who can run off-ball and then quick-iso-poster an all-star 7-footer on the block[/COLOR]






And what is this?.. off-ball?... An iso???.. Both obviously





So STFU you have no idea what ur talking about

[Turbo Slayer]

.
^^^^ they just stand there and shoot it, which MJ did a lot of too


But who has it off-ball like this?






[COLOR="Navy"]Who can run off-ball and then quick-iso-poster an all-star 7-footer on the block[/COLOR]






And what is this?.. off-ball?... An iso???.. Both obviously





So STFU you have no idea what ur talking about

Youre Molly from First Take. Whiny as hell. Looking feminime as hell.

[ILLsmak]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Know someone who never comes up as an off ball scorer because all his highlights are ISO

[Manny98]

.
^^^^ they just stand there and shoot it, which MJ did a lot of too


But who has it off-ball like this?






[COLOR="Navy"]Who can run off-ball and then quick-iso-poster an all-star 7-footer on the block[/COLOR]






And what is this?.. off-ball?... An iso???.. Both obviously





So STFU you have no idea what ur talking about

That's not even off ball retard I literally see.zero off ball movement in those gifs he's catching the ball and proceeding to take multiple dribbles just to score

[3ball]

That's not even off ball retard I literally see.zero off ball movement in those gifs he's catching the ball and proceeding to take multiple dribbles just to score

He literally used 2 dribbles total on those 3 previous gifs..

But that irrelevant anyway - dribbles and off-ball movement don't matter as long as the player is off-the-ball and makes a quick move on the catch..

again, off-ball movement isn't necessary (many threes are taken after waiting for kickouuts), although obviously, MJ is moving a lot off-ball anyway so it's moot

That's not even off ball retard I literally see.zero off ball movement in those gifs he's catching the ball and proceeding to take multiple dribbles just to score

here's gifs that include the off-ball movement:

[Bronbron23]

Camping in the high post and barking at Harper/Kerr to feed you isn't impressive off ball game


He had to do this bc he wasn't good enough to break down players 1v1 with ball handling and get to his spots himself

Both statements couldn't be more off. Your either trolling or didn't watch mj play dude.

[Bronbron23]

MJ is great off ball, better than LeBron and anyone in the top 10 but he's not even in the same tier as Curry,Miller and Klay just stop it

No he's not but he didn't need to be either.all of those guys need screens and off ball movement to score the way they did or do or in Curry's case to be as efficient as he is.