The difference between 6/6 and 3/9

[Turbo Slayer]

A whole generation of people think Lebron is GOAT.

3ball, you can't change that no matter what you do. Wasting your time.

FACTS

WE STAY WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3ball]

A whole generation of people think Lebron is GOAT.

3ball, you can't change that no matter what you do. Wasting your time.

A whole generation thinks Kobe is goat

Another one thinks Bird is

But only MJ is goat when you include all generations and genres - so even after 17 years of watching Lebron in 720 HD or better, the Bleacher Report still puts MJ as goat... Otoh, it only took everyone about 8 years of watching MJ to think he was easily the goat.

Anyway you look at it, MJ GOAT, while bron is first loser at best

[sdot_thadon]

Kuniva, samauiri and everyone in the other thread already got to the bottom of it

Samauri describes it better than me:





At no.point was MJ mentioned, except implied at the beginning to say he was cooking Finley, Stackhouse and lebron.

For one, that was my post you numbskull And Ron says Lebron was cooking everyone. So unless there was a separate run he's speaking on, which no clarification was given Mj was there.

[3ball]

You’re arguably the biggest liar on ISH

CONSTANTLY making up stats.

Playoff stats needed for 3 rings:

Jordan[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]91-93' Playoffs[COLOR="White"].'..[/COLOR] - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg
Lebron 12/13/16 Playoffs - 27.2 ppg and 7.2 apg

MJ had to score 6 more points (nearly 25% more) with equal assists)

^^

[sdot_thadon]

[BTLDR[/B]: 3ball doesn't make up stats - the haters are simply mad that MJ won as "the man" twice as much as anyone else in the modern era (6 to 3), while being #1 in PPG, efficiency rating, and 2-way accolades (seasons with both 1st team all-nba and 1st team defense)

No he doesn't make up stats, he just purposely fudges the numbers slightly and they always "accidentally " seem to support his case by being off. And he utilizes the most horrendous number rounding logic known to man.

[LAmbruh]

M-M-M-M-M.........

[AlternativeAcc.]

LeBron's edge in conference championships makes up for the slight deficit in rings

accolade rise MJ and LeBron are even, it's LeBron's better peak play and longevity that sets him apart GOAT wise

Plus MJ gets a knock for taking a year and change off to rest, he likely never wins another ring without quitting to recover - something LeBron's never done

[3ball]

LeBron's edge in conference championships makes up for the slight deficit in rings

So 3 conference Finals wins = 3 Finals wins?????...


WTF... Only a completely blind (and wrong) Lebron stan could say that...

accolade rise MJ and LeBron are even

3 less rings

1 less MVP

3 less FMVP

1 less DPOY

9 less scoring titles

4 less 1st team defense


How does Lebron have more accolades again??..

, it's LeBron's better peak play and longevity that sets him apart GOAT wise

What's Lebron's peak, because there's no peak that matches MJ's

Plus MJ gets a knock for taking a year and change off to rest, he likely never wins another ring without quitting to recover - something LeBron's never done

Jordan averaged 41 in the 1993 Finals - no one's ever looked stronger

So lol that he needed a rest

Keep dreaming bud... It's funny

[AlternativeAcc.]

LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring. (and in many cases, is MORE impressive than other players rings).... notably all of Kobe's rings < than most of LeBron's conference titles

The importance of context and critical analysis is important in these discussions because it goes WAY deeper than surface layer (and often times trivial) perks.. like rings/media awards


Building your point on surface layer perks like rings and media awards only speaks to your inability to see the real big picture. You're no more than a casual fan masquerading as a proficient analyst. You're Molly from first take. Sit down.

[RRR3]

I know for a fact that LeBron’s FG% was higher than 45.4% in the 12/13/16 finals. Caught lying yet again.

[LAmbruh]

LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring. (and in many cases, is MORE impressive than other players rings).... notably all of Kobe's rings < than most of LeBron's conference titles

The importance of context and critical analysis is important in these discussions because it goes WAY deeper than surface layer (and often times trivial) perks.. like rings/media awards


Building your point on surface layer perks like rings and media awards only speaks to your inability to see the real big picture. You're no more than a casual fan masquerading as a proficient analyst. You're Molly from first take. Sit down.

[3ball]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring[/COLOR]

Lebron had the best 2nd option in the conference in 2018, and the best 2nd and 3rd options (super-teams) from 2011-2017.

So he only made it with a weak cast once (2007), when everyone else was doing it too (09' Dwight, 02/03 Kidd, 01' Iverson).. Maybe you could include 2015, but Kyrie only missed 2 games on that Eastern run.

Ultimately, guys like Dwight, AI, Lebron and Kidd proved that a good cast often wasn't needed to win the conference from 2001-2009, yet Lebron failed in 09/10 and stacked the deck from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs

It's pretty damn weak, and you need to get your head out of the sand on this

[COLOR="DarkRed"]LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring[/COLOR]

MJ's carry-jobs were bigger:

2007 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 [COLOR="White"]t[/COLOR]DET:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [COLOR="White"]n[/COLOR]#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed.. 3 perennial all-stars*

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper

[COLOR="DarkRed"]LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring[/COLOR]

MJ's carry-jobs were bigger:


[COLOR="darkgreen"]Bigger Overachievement[/COLOR]: Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


[COLOR="DarkRed"]Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Navy"]Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.[/COLOR]


[COLOR="DarkRed"]1st Round Jordan:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="navy"]1st Round Lebron:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]2nd Round Jordan:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG) [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Navy"]2nd Round Lebron:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Conf. Finals Jordan:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="navy"]Conf. Finals Lebron:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring[/COLOR]

In 2007, Lebron's 2 seed was swept 4-0 by the champs while he averaged 22/7/6 on 36%

In 1989, Jordan's 6 seed went 6 games with the champs, while he averaged 30/7/6 on 47%


No comparison

[COLOR="DarkRed"]LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring[/COLOR]

19 Giannis > 07' Lebron

Giannis 19' ECF[COLOR="White"]...''[/COLOR] vs. Champs - 23/14/6 on 44.8 fg.. 23.7% on jumpers
Lebron[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 07' Finals vs. Champs - 22/7/6.. on 35.6 fg.. 17.9% on jumpers


Links for jumpshot stats:

Giannis: https://stats.nba.com/player/203507/...offs&PORound=3

Lebron: https://stats.nba.com/player/2544/sh...offs&PORound=4

[COLOR="DarkRed"]LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring[/COLOR]

09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen:


09' Mo Will RS:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

09' Mo Will ECF:[COLOR="White"].ni[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat [COLOR="White"]'o[/COLOR] #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper


Looks like Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'..

Mo was also better than 19' Middleton:


MO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] WILLIAMS[COLOR="White"]....[/COlor]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
KHRIS MIDDLETON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp

[COLOR="DarkRed"]LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring[/COLOR]

Lebron had the[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] #1 SRS team in 2009, but lost to the #4 SRS team

Jordan had the #10 SRS team in 1989, but beat the #1 SRS team..

Heck, MJ pulled a bigger upset than Dwight...


^^^^^ That's not significant??...

The reality is that pre-2011 Lebron had 4 teammates that were superior to 89' Pippen:

- all-star Mo
- 2-time all-star Jamison
- steals leader and 22/5/5 first-team defender - 05' Hughes
- 2-time all-star Zydrunas

Yet MJ won 6 rings and Lebron lost to Dwight in 09', faked an elbow injury during a 2010 meltdown, and then started team-hopping in 11'.

Heck, Lebron had the reigning East all-star center in 06' and 22/5/5 all-defender Hughes - one must assume that MJ would've beaten 89' Detroit with these guys rather than 89' Pip

Ultimately, there's this perception that pre-2011 Lebron was carrying lottery casts to high seeds and the Finals, while MJ was losing with Pip... But in reality, MJ's 85-89' casts are worse than anything Lebron ever had... That's why MJ had to carry his team to a close series with the 89' champs, while Lebron shoots 35% but still takes the champs 7 in 08'

[FromDowntown]

Jordan beat no one

LeBron beat the cream of the crop

Take notes

[3ball]

Jordan beat no one

LeBron beat the cream of the crop

Take notes

You're ignoring reality

Everyone knows that his "not 6, not 7" Heat had the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, and his 2016 Cavs saw their 2nd option demolish the Warriors' 1st option...

In other words, Lebron had Big 3 superteams and can't complain about facing talent deficits - it's his opponents that can complain about facing talent deficits to his colluded, stacked deck teams

Ultimately, Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced a talent deficit in 07', 15', and 18'...

17' is debatable and the goat is supposed to make up for differences anyway - the fact that he never did shows he isn't the goat.. the only talent deficit he overcame was the 2007 ECF, and MJ overcame much bigger talent deficits then that - let me know if you need me to specify with all the relevant stats and proof

Jordan beat no one

LeBron beat the cream of the crop

Take notes

Facing great teams is no excuse for not having a great team yourself that can compete EVENLY - but Lebron is 2-5 against the best teams of the era (Spurs/Warriors), so Lebron failed to compete at an elite standard (let alone a goat standard)

[RRR3]

mmmm smack MJ mmm smack