Was 9/11 conceived predominantly by American interests?

[AlternativeAcc.]

The neoconservative thinktank Project for the New American Century basically outlined a plan for America to do EVERYTHING it did post-9/11, before 9/11 happened. Numerous members of PNAC were actually IN the Bush foreign policy cabinet. It was even stated in their missive that such goals were unlikely attainable, short of some major national catastrophe.









This isn't a bunch of speculative conspiracy stuff like the meme highwhey posted. This is an actual verifiable public document produced and signed by members of the Bush cabinet.

How could anyone be aware of the existence of these documents and actually think the whole thing was just, like, an amazing coincidence!

Neocons came up with all these aims to basically strong arm the world, but the only way to galvanize the American people to support it would be through a major catastrophe, and lo and behold, months after Bush takes office.... a major catastrophe!

I mean... how can anyone be this naive and gullible!??

This is a classic case of correlation doesn't imply causation.


You can't just look at this document and 911 in a vacuum as if there weren't tensions between the US/Iraq long before 911.


Do I think Bush and his administration took advantage of 911 to their benefit? Of course.


Does that mean Bush and his admin concocted an elaborate scheme to kill 5000 US citizens just for the sake of going to war with Iraq? And actually get away with it.. Of course not...


US/Iraq were on a collision course no matter what, 911 just so happened to add jet fuel to the already kindled fire.

[warriorfan]

This is a classic case of correlation doesn't imply causation.


You can't just look at this document and 911 in a vacuum as if there weren't tensions between the US/Iraq long before 911.


Do I think Bush and his administration took advantage of 911 to their benefit? Of course.


Does that mean Bush and his admin concocted an elaborate scheme to kill 5000 US citizens just for the sake of going to war with Iraq? And actually get away with it.. Of course not...


US/Iraq were on a collision course no matter what, 911 just so happened to add jet fuel to the already kindled fire.

It’s not that elaborate of a scheme. Attempt to instigate and fund middle eastern extremist groups and gain intelligence of their plans. Purposely allow their plans to take place (i.e. run training exercises similar to the plan the day of the attack)

On September 11, 2001, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) was involved in an ongoing operation which involved deploying fighter aircraft to northwestern North America. The U.S. Military and NORAD had also planned to conduct several military exercises and a drill was being held by the National Reconnaissance Office, a Department of Defense agency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...ember_11,_2001

[Rocket]

Seriously??? A 9/11 truther thread??

[TheMan]

This is a classic case of correlation doesn't imply causation.


You can't just look at this document and 911 in a vacuum as if there weren't tensions between the US/Iraq long before 911.


Do I think Bush and his administration took advantage of 911 to their benefit? Of course.


Does that mean Bush and his admin concocted an elaborate scheme to kill 5000 US citizens just for the sake of going to war with Iraq? And actually get away with it.. Of course not...


US/Iraq were on a collision course no matter what, 911 just so happened to add jet fuel to the already kindled fire.

Why do you keep saying 5,000 when it was 3,000 people who were killed on 9/11?

[MaxFly]

Seriously??? A 9/11 truther thread??

I believe we have one pop up about every year or two. It's ridiculous.

Why do you keep saying 5,000 when it was 3,000 people who were killed on 9/11?

Probably taking into account the number of first responders who have subsequently died from health complications due to their work at Ground Zero.

[ILLsmak]

This is a classic case of correlation doesn't imply causation.


You can't just look at this document and 911 in a vacuum as if there weren't tensions between the US/Iraq long before 911.


Do I think Bush and his administration took advantage of 911 to their benefit? Of course.


Does that mean Bush and his admin concocted an elaborate scheme to kill 5000 US citizens just for the sake of going to war with Iraq? And actually get away with it.. Of course not...


US/Iraq were on a collision course no matter what, 911 just so happened to add jet fuel to the already kindled fire.

What if the elaborate scheme was just ignoring intel? Plausible deniability is big in conspiracies. It's like... you can say how can someone get away with such a thing, but you can have one dude drop some poison in a water source and that can result in thousands of deaths.

I don't think it was a legit surprise attack. 9/11 was like the closest I've ever been to feeling what it probably feels like to be psychotic. It was this kind of ear-ringing feeling that 'something was amiss', things didn't add up. I couldn't and still can't explain it. You could argue that it's just trauma, but I've experienced way more traumatic things than 9/11 and, to be frank, 9/11 had very little personal effect on me other than the fact that it seemed like we, at the very least, let it happen. Which is really a sobering thing to think about, even as a possibility.

The conspiracy axis is like... how much effort would be required to make it happen, how much would there to be to gain if it succeeded, and how much plausible deniability does it allow?

I mean, for instance the housing market crash in 2008 was an extremely devastating event and that could have been something we (or banks) had a hand in, too. That was a super wide reaching phenomenon. Is it just because people died that you don't believe it's possible? I honestly don't see how that makes any difference.

The actual number of deaths don't matter as much as the fact that we let people fly planes into the world trade center. That was the 'action', what happened after was just fallout. That's not the same as 5000 individual murders. It was max four coordinated events. And you only need a few people to hijack a plane.

-Smak

[MaxFly]

I mean, for instance the housing market crash in 2008 was an extremely devastating event and that could have been something we (or banks) had a hand in, too.

The banks did have a hand in the market crash of 2008. They were the central reason for the crash. Check out "collateralized debt obligations" and "mortgage backed securities."

[Norcaliblunt]

Yes, and that

[FultzNationRISE]

This is a classic case of correlation doesn't imply causation.


You can't just look at this document and 911 in a vacuum as if there weren't tensions between the US/Iraq long before 911.


Do I think Bush and his administration took advantage of 911 to their benefit? Of course.


Does that mean Bush and his admin concocted an elaborate scheme to kill 5000 US citizens just for the sake of going to war with Iraq? And actually get away with it.. Of course not...


US/Iraq were on a collision course no matter what, 911 just so happened to add jet fuel to the already kindled fire.

This is fair and I get that, these are not isolated incidents in a vacuum. Terrorism has been around long before 9/11. But when has terrorist activity ever produced a disaster anywhere near the degree of 9/11?

The timeline is jarring. A report is produced in the late 90s by a neocon think tank that states STRAIGHT UP: America should ramp up militarization, create public hysteria about protecting the homeland, engage in satelite wars around the world... and the only way this would be feasible is to suffer a catastrophe on the level of Pearl Harbor.

Bush is elected in 2000 and six of the paper's signatories are in his cabinet. Nine months later... another Pearl Harbor! And instantly all of their foreign policy designs are implemented.



This should at LEAST be cause for much, much greater bipartisan investigation and interrogation of the men who write those papers. These are the most powerful men in the country! They should all be put to lie detectors. But people just accept this shit and go about their lives. The idea of having to think and potentially take over for current leaders? Most people are ordinary rubes, they dont wanna contemplate any of that. If the govt sweeps 9/11 under the rug and says 'let's move on,' joe dumbshit is gonna be like 'yeah, let's just do that. I'm not in a position to find out uncomfortable truths, I'm just a shmuck what I gonna do if I found this stuff out? I'd have to react and question things and shit would be chaotic, I'm not intellectually equipped for that life, so why would I even wanna go there? Rather just stay blind and ignorant.'

[Lakers Legend#32]

If Dubya was the mastermind of 9/11, the planes would have missed.

[ILLsmak]

The banks did have a hand in the market crash of 2008. They were the central reason for the crash. Check out "collateralized debt obligations" and "mortgage backed securities."

I mean in a more nefarious than just 'get rich and exploit' sort of way. As in to reshape our economy.

The greater point is that happened. Sure, people were 'punished', but not really. Changed our economy majorly, a bunch of people got rich. You can compare blaming the banks to our eventual admission that, wait, maybe the Saudis were involved in 9/11.

I was drawing a comparison between two wide-reaching catastrophic events that reshaped our country for the conspiracies don't exist crowd (because apparently 5000 deaths is impossible, but a major collapse of our economy is.)

You can only look at the info and make your own decision. I don't think there's any way to know (anything, really) FOR SURE, but I definitely lean towards us being at least privy to it.

I'm not exactly ready to do the jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams, controlled demolition theory... but it's not so outlandish that it can't be considered. There are some interesting facts that people can cling to, but THAT seems pretty ****ing hard to pull off.

But like I said, the thing I realized during 9/11 was how fragile and gullible people as a whole are. Something like that happens and it just shakes everyone to their core and allows them to be manipulated in whatever way. People were like 'you can't even say long bomb' in football, or whenever you'd say something about 9/11 and our profiting from it, both in war and legislation, people would act like you were committing treason.

If Dubya was the mastermind of 9/11, the planes would have missed.

haha, it's like when we got bin Laden assuming we actually did, or when we hit a strategic airstrike on an important point, it's not like the president has planned that out and is flying the plane or running in with a gun. It's just something he (or maybe he's not even involved?) or someone else in a position of power would sign off on. Like OK, everything is in place, let's do it. It obviously takes a lot more than just Bush's imagination.

-Smak

[Norcaliblunt]

I want to know why there aren’t any in depth documentaries that portray the personalities of the hijackers. I mean all of us know Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, John Gotti, Pablo Escobar, Bonnie and Clyde, etc. But I couldn’t tell you shit about these hijackers.

[Rocket]

The banks did have a hand in the market crash of 2008. They were the central reason for the crash. Check out "collateralized debt obligations" and "mortgage backed securities."

The banks had a hand in it due to Clinton's Community Reinvestment Act which incentivized giving mortgages to people who could not afford them and punished banks that did not.

Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits.

Link - Are the Clintons the real housing crash villains?

[n00bie]

Are we really supposed to believe one of the most incompetent administrations in US history could pull off one of the biggest mass murders ever with impunity?

Yes because people like you will always be in disbelief. Even with all the evidence presented to you, you probably think it's all just a "coincidence"

So you think the U.S. gov't can't pull this off but a couple of guys living in the mountains of Afghanistan can?

[BarberSchool]

The people who hijacked the planes were Saudi, Egyptian, Emirati, and Lebanese. But he planners were American wasps in govt, American jews in govt, Israeli Mossad agents, Saudi royals/intel, and British MI-6 Intel.