What's the argument for LeBron NOT being the GOAT

[3ball]

.
MJ's goat arguments are singular to him (true goat arguments), while any argument that is used to say Lebron > MJ can be used by others to say they're better than MJ too:

longevity = Kareem, Malone and Kobe also had better longevity

8 straight ECF = West, Chamberlain, and Magic have similar feats

73-win team = Dwight and Baron beat higher-win teams than Jordan ever did, and Baron won with a 40-win 8 seed

and this is true of any non-goat - players that have a group of arguments to use over Jordan suffer from the same problem - others can use those same arguments (thus making them not goat arguments)

In addition to others using the same arguments, the arguments above simply suck:

longevity = this argument assumes that MJ wasn't capable of playing in 1994, when he certainly would've played if he lost to Barkley in 93'... it would've been ridiculous and shameful for MJ to retire after losing to Barkley - he simply would never have done it

8 straight ECF = lebron only started his streak of ECF after forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning (stacking deck, manufacturing resume)

73-win team = Kyrie destroyed Curry, aka if Rik Smits destroyed Shaq in the 2000 Finals, no one would say Reggie had the goat accomplishment.. Or if Kenyon destroyed Duncan in 03', no one would say Kidd had the goat accomplishment - this can be done for any Finals... if KJ destroyed MJ in 93', no one would say Barkley had the goat accomplishment

[Axe]

.
MJ's goat arguments are singular to him (true goat arguments), while any argument that is used to say Lebron > MJ can be used by others to say they're better than MJ too:

longevity = Kareem, Malone and Kobe also had better longevity

8 straight ECF = West, Chamberlain, and Magic have similar feats

73-win team = Dwight and Baron beat higher-win teams than Jordan ever did, and Baron won with a 40-win 8 seed

and this is true of any non-goat - players that have a group of arguments to use over Jordan suffer from the same problem - others can use those same arguments (thus making them not goat arguments)

In addition to others using the same arguments, the arguments above simply suck:

longevity = this argument assumes that MJ wasn't capable of playing in 1994, when he certainly would've played if he lost to Barkley in 93'... it would've been ridiculous and shameful for MJ to retire after losing to Barkley - he simply would never have done it

8 straight ECF = lebron only started his streak of ECF after forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning (stacking deck, manufacturing resume)

73-win team = Kyrie destroyed Curry, aka if Rik Smits destroyed Shaq in the 2000 Finals, no one would say Reggie had the goat accomplishment.. Or if Kenyon destroyed Duncan in 03', no one would say Kidd had the goat accomplishment - this can be done for any Finals... if KJ destroyed MJ in 93', no one would say Barkley had the goat accomplishment

No pip?

[msbutthurt]

If Ray Allen doesn't hit a ridiculous 3 to send it to overtime the series would have been over and Lebron would only have 2 titles.



If Kyrie doesn't hit a dagger 3 and Draymond doesn't get suspended for Game 7, Lebron would have 1 title.



And without the refs, the Heat never even get past the Pacers leaving Lebron with 0 titles.

[msbutthurt]

If Ray Allen doesn't hit a ridiculous 3 to send it to overtime the series would have been over and Lebron would only have 2 titles.


If Kyrie doesn't hit a dagger 3 and Draymond doesn't get suspended for Game 7, Lebron would have 1 title.


And without the refs, the Heat never even get past the Pacers leaving Lebron with 0 titles.




Replace Lebron with Jordan on the Heat and there is absolutely no way Jordan gets beat down that badly, and Jordan maybe even wins the title.


2014 Finals: Spurs vs Heat

2014 Game 1: 110-95 Spurs +15
2014 Game 2: 98-96 Heat +2
2014 Game 3: 111-92 Spurs +19
2014 Game 4: 107-86 Spurs +21
2014 Game 5: 104-87 Spurs +17

[dbugz]

If Ray Allen doesn't hit a ridiculous 3 to send it to overtime the series would have been over and Lebron would only have 2 titles.


If Kyrie doesn't hit a dagger 3 and Draymond doesn't get suspended for Game 7, Lebron would have 1 title.


And without the refs, the Heat never even get past the Pacers leaving Lebron with 0 titles.




Replace Lebron with Jordan on the Heat and there is absolutely no way Jordan gets beat down that badly, and Jordan maybe even wins the title.


2014 Finals: Spurs vs Heat

2014 Game 1: 110-95 Spurs +15
2014 Game 2: 98-96 Heat +2
2014 Game 3: 111-92 Spurs +19
2014 Game 4: 107-86 Spurs +21
2014 Game 5: 104-87 Spurs +17

The other title is a shortened seasoned, it would have been a different story if it isn't.

Libron titles all have *

aint goat even his friends think he isn't

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Udonis Haslem, former LeBron James teammate, says Michael Jordan is the GOAT

Ray Allen still takes Michael Jordan over LeBron James as the greatest of all time

[Shooter]

I'll do a quick recap reminder about his three GOAT level rings:

2012
LBJ became only the second player in NBA history to average 30-10-5 on 50% shooting for an entire playoff run en route to a Finals MVP.

He also dismantled the three-headed OKC monster, three MVP, three scoring champion trio of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and James Harden. Not to mention Defensive Player of the Year runner-up Serge Ibaka

2013
LBJ defeated the #6, #1 and #3 defense teams in back-to-back-to-back fashion while capping off the greatest game 7 Finals performance perhaps in NBA history. All the while beating who? The great Dynasty Spurs with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and Kawhi Leonard and Hall of Famer coach Gregory Popovich. Also, while dragging the literal second-worst all time (Wade) number two ppg scoring option in playoff history (15.9 ppg for entire playoffs).

2016
I don't even need to say anything here. Leading all in all. This ring stands alone as the GOAT achievement.

Good luck to anyone, but my point remains. LeBron James is the greatest champion in basketball Sports history and no one is close to his achievements. Who has even close to this? Please post any player's greatest three rings. Should be easier for those with more to choose from, right?

Whenever I see a GOAT debate I think back to how no one could refute that LeBron is in fact the greatest champion in NBA history. The replies are only more proof, thereby strengthening the claim.

We are still waiting on a formiddable contender to post their three best championships to compare, but it appears there is no comparison. Which is fine afterall, LeBron is the greatest champion ever.

[Roundball_Rock]

If Ray Allen doesn't hit a ridiculous 3 to send it to overtime the series would have been over and Lebron would only have 2 titles.


If Kyrie doesn't hit a dagger 3 and Draymond doesn't get suspended for Game 7, Lebron would have 1 title.

You can do this with almost any championship team. Look no further than last year's champ. They were one play away from losing in the second round.

What you said is posted fairly often but presupposes that every close came went Miami's way. They never lost a close game where a bounce of a ball here, a break there would have swung it in their favor, obviating the need for "Save Allen" etc.?

longevity = this argument assumes that MJ wasn't capable of playing in 1994, when he certainly would've played if he lost to Barkley in 93'... it would've been ridiculous and shameful for MJ to retire after losing to Barkley - he simply would never have done it

He was talking retirement before the playoffs were even over, before he knew the result or who his finals opponent would be (if they made it that far). You guys can't just make stuff up. What he would or would not have done if they lost is baseless speculation.

[3ball]

No pip?

who assisted more often - Pippen or Jordan?

who led the bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs

what big shots did Pippen hit?

when did he "take over" in any meaningful stretch... virtually never

[Axe]

who assisted more often - Pippen or Jordan?

who led the bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs

what big shots did Pippen hit?

when did he "take over" in any meaningful stretch... virtually never

No chip?

Btw, i love the bulls, especially in the 90s. They're my fave team since my toddler days but you should stop worshipping baldan too much.

[Roundball_Rock]

what big shots did Pippen hit?

when did he "take over" in any meaningful stretch.

MJ hit every shot, scored every point for the Bulls! Pippen somehow had 25-26% usage in the finals and ECF (as high as 28% in a couple big series) without scoring any points or having any hot stretches.

[Axe]

who assisted more often - Pippen or Jordan?

who led the bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs

what big shots did Pippen hit?

when did he "take over" in any meaningful stretch... virtually never

Btw, the only thing you're bragging about him is his scoring capabilities, right?

So how bout the rest?

[3ball]

Btw, the only thing you're bragging about him is his scoring capabilities, right?

So how bout the rest?

if AD scores like Pippen, the Lakers will get destroyed and AD is a better defender than Pippen .. so defense is something that you guys use to overrate pippen (because you can't treat him like a normal star due to his shit offense and zero clutch, aka Jordan got the reputation for carrying the bulls down the stretch of EVERY game... that's no exaggeration and common knowledge, also statistical fact)

and what's the "rest" that you're referring to?... 5 apg?... lol... since when is that worth mentioning

and I said that Jordan carried the passing load by assisting 33% more often and usually leading the bulls in playoff assists

[Roundball_Rock]

Btw, the only thing you're bragging about him is his scoring capabilities, right?

So how bout the rest?

It is inexplicable: Jordan is one of the GOAT all-around players (arguably the GOAT all-around guy) with no weakness in his game but a lot of his stans boil him down to PPG.

[Shooter]

if AD scores like Pippen, the Lakers will get destroyed and AD is a better defender than Pippen .. so defense is something that you guys use to overrate pippen (because you can't treat him like a normal star due to his shit offense and zero clutch, aka Jordan got the reputation for carrying the bulls down the stretch of EVERY game... that's no exaggeration and common knowledge, also statistical fact)

and what's the "rest" that you're referring to?... 5 apg?... lol... since when is that worth mentioning

and I said that Jordan carried the passing load by assisting 33% more often and usually leading the bulls in playoff assists

Wrong.

If the opponent's 2nd options scores like Hornacek we will be fine. So how easy that was?

Imagine "needing" scoring from your elite defender and #2 option when your opponent's #2 is scoring 10.7 ppg

[Roundball_Rock]

Wrong.

If the opponent's 2nd options scores like Hornacek we will be fine. So how easy that was?

Imagine "needing" scoring from your elite defender and #2 option when your opponent's #2 is scoring 10.7 ppg

That's if you count Hornacek as the #2. Don't 3ball, et al. say how Jordan would have won 8, 9, no 10 rings if he had Stockton among others? Stockton was at 9.7 (7 after Game 1, including a 2 point game). A complete no show for the NBA finals...