A different perspective on covid

[Nanners]

The way all of this covid hysteria has been framed is completely backward and illogical.

One of the sad facts of life is that people die every day, for all kinds of reasons. If you're lucky, you will live long enough to become old, and for old people the top 5 causes of death are - Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, Respiratory disease, Influenza. There are lots of things we could do to reduce deaths by these causes - We know that sugar intake is related to heart disease, banning sugar would "save lives". We know that people who live downwind of an oil refinery have increased cancer rates, shutting down all refineries would "save lives". We know that cigarettes cause respiratory disease, banning cigarettes would "save lives". We know that influenza is highly contagious, sheltering-in-place during flu season every year would "save lives". The reason we dont resort to these draconian measures that would "SAVE LIVES", is because until a few weeks ago we understood that all of the senior citizens whose lives would "saved" by banning sugar would just die to something else like Alzheimers, and we decided that having things like sugar and refineries and cigarettes and a functional economy is more important than maybe extending the lives of some old people. In reality, banning sugar wouldnt "save lives", it would prolong lives... and thats how we should be looking at covid.

They say that tons of people in Italy are being killed because of covid... but when you look at the numbers, the average age for those dead is ~80 (the life expectancy for Italy is 82 for comparison), and 99% of those who died had at least 1 pre-existing illness (50% of the dead had 3 or more illnesses). When an 80 year old life-long smoker with heart disease and emphysema gets killed by covid, are they really being killed by covid? or are they being killed because old age and poor decision making has finally caught up to them?

When you catch a cold, a strain of corona is responsible about 25% of the time... thats what coronavirus is, its a cold. There are currently over 30 known strains of coronavirus (we discover new ones each year), how many of the old and sick Italians that supposedly dying because of covid would have died from a different strain of corona next week? Does it really make sense to destroy our economy and hide indoors for weeks or months just so that we can prolong the lives of some people that are so old and sick that they die from catching a cold?

If truly "saving lives" is what we care about, hiding indoors is probably the opposite of what we should be doing. For people age 15-24, suicide is the second most common cause of death. Forcing young people with mental health issues and/or zero economic prospects to avoid human contact and hide indoors while society collapses around them will obviously result in an increase in suicide rates.

[coin24]

Yeah it's better to collapse the economy, people to lose their jobs / money / superannuation. Businesses to close, ban people from being outside etc cause of a damn cold

And for all those idiots saying derp it's so the medical system doesn't get bombarded at once, maybe if the stupid media didn't have the green light to go full retard then people wouldn't be carrying on like total idiots.
Damn boomers lining up for an hour before the supermarket opens to buy all the toilet paper and paper towels

[Nanners]

Its funny how we americans think about the value of life.

Last year, an estimated ~60,000-70,000 americans died because they were unable to afford the healthcare that they needed to survive. When someone (like Bernie) points out the fact that poor people are dying because they cant afford healthcare, the response from the political establishment is always "how would you pay for that?".

So let me get this straight... we cant afford to provide life-saving healthcare to people who are unable to afford it, but we can afford to wipe out the entire US economy in order to marginally prolong the lives of some sick senior citizens?

edit: btw these 60-70k people who are dying because they cant afford healthcare are not senior citizens, because all senior citizens in the US get full coverage by medicare (aka SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE).

[diamenz]

coronavirus is un-american. catch something made in the usa.

[BarberSchool]

Nanners, have you seen any of the predictive graphs which show the solvency extensions to entitlement program funds, based on death models of the equivalent demographic group in the USA ?

[Nanners]

Nanners, have you seen any of the predictive graphs which show the solvency extensions to entitlement program funds, based on death models of the equivalent demographic group in the USA ?

i havent, got a link?

[kabar]

The way all of this covid hysteria has been framed is completely backward and illogical.

One of the sad facts of life is that people die every day, for all kinds of reasons. If you're lucky, you will live long enough to become old, and for old people the top 5 causes of death are - Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, Respiratory disease, Influenza. There are lots of things we could do to reduce deaths by these causes - We know that sugar intake is related to heart disease, banning sugar would "save lives". We know that people who live downwind of an oil refinery have increased cancer rates, shutting down all refineries would "save lives". We know that cigarettes cause respiratory disease, banning cigarettes would "save lives". We know that influenza is highly contagious, sheltering-in-place during flu season every year would "save lives". The reason we dont resort to these draconian measures that would "SAVE LIVES", is because until a few weeks ago we understood that all of the senior citizens whose lives would "saved" by banning sugar would just die to something else like Alzheimers, and we decided that having things like sugar and refineries and cigarettes and a functional economy is more important than maybe extending the lives of some old people. In reality, banning sugar wouldnt "save lives", it would prolong lives... and thats how we should be looking at covid.

They say that tons of people in Italy are being killed because of covid... but when you look at the numbers, the average age for those dead is ~80 (the life expectancy for Italy is 82 for comparison), and 99% of those who died had at least 1 pre-existing illness (50% of the dead had 3 or more illnesses). When an 80 year old life-long smoker with heart disease and emphysema gets killed by covid, are they really being killed by covid? or are they being killed because old age and poor decision making has finally caught up to them?

When you catch a cold, a strain of corona is responsible about 25% of the time... thats what coronavirus is, its a cold. There are currently over 30 known strains of coronavirus (we discover new ones each year), how many of the old and sick Italians that supposedly dying because of covid would have died from a different strain of corona next week? Does it really make sense to destroy our economy and hide indoors for weeks or months just so that we can prolong the lives of some people that are so old and sick that they die from catching a cold?

If truly "saving lives" is what we care about, hiding indoors is probably the opposite of what we should be doing. For people age 15-24, suicide is the second most common cause of death. Forcing young people with mental health issues and/or zero economic prospects to avoid human contact and hide indoors while society collapses around them will obviously result in an increase in suicide rates.

This is such a narrow perspective. It's not about saving lives, it's about how contagious this particular strain is and the need to preserve the limited resources of our healthcare system. We're not sheltering in place to save lives from a common cold, we're sheltering in place to prevent the overloading of our ER's and hospitals.

[Nanners]

This is such a narrow perspective. It's not about saving lives, it's about how contagious this particular strain is and the need to preserve the limited resources of our healthcare system. We're not sheltering in place to save lives from a common cold, we're sheltering in place to prevent the overloading of our ER's and hospitals.

lol... if this is not about saving lives, the response makes even less sense. What kind of idiotic nation would intentionally destroy its own economy simply in order to prevent temporarily overloading its ER's and hospitals? If lack of hospitals are really the concern, how about we just set up some temporary medical facilities, rather than putting 3/4 of americans out of work?

[tpols]

yup.... its ****ing retarded.

[John Connor]

lol... if this is not about saving lives, the response makes even less sense. What kind of idiotic nation would intentionally destroy its own economy simply in order to prevent temporarily overloading its ER's and hospitals? If lack of hospitals are really the concern, how about we just set up some temporary medical facilities, rather than putting 3/4 of americans out of work?

If you think that the response to COVID-19 is the primary reason the economy is falling apart, you would best be served by not partaking in economic discussions.

Simply put, it may be the pin that pricked the bubble, but the major underlying issue is the fact that everyone is up to their ears in debt. Our system is designed in such a way that if it stops churning for even a minute, it falls apart. That is not a healthy economy. The United States hasn't had a truly healthy economy since before my lifetime.

The nation's response to COVID-19 is "destroying the economy", though. Ha.

[kabar]

lol... if this is not about saving lives, the response makes even less sense. What kind of idiotic nation would intentionally destroy its own economy simply in order to prevent temporarily overloading its ER's and hospitals? If lack of hospitals are really the concern, how about we just set up some temporary medical facilities, rather than putting 3/4 of americans out of work?

It is about saving lives, not about saving lives of people with the common cold. Use your brain, there exists people with other medical conditions who couldn't get care if the hospitals were overloaded with corona patients. It's also not about space either, we would also have a shortage in medical supplies, plasma, etc.

[imdaman99]

I'm in a group chat with a few NY women. I sent them a picture of me with my mask on and I told them I'm playing tennis by myself against the wall yesterday. They ripped me to shreds, I was like OK tell us why you really mad.

Btches were just like taking shots at me, because they decided to be inside and quarantine themselves, in their late 20s while I was outside enjoying the day. Keep in mind, I stayed away from everyone and just played against the wall. That didn't matter to them. They were like it's because of people like you why this shit isn't over and done already. I'm like OK I'm sorry but I still had work. And I am the only one with income in the apartment I pay for.

I was close to bouncing from that group chat, but I decided to be a grownup and ignore 99% of it. Is it smarter to stay home and become a hermit? Yeah fine. But it was 70 degrees yesterday and I was going crazy being inside. Mental health is a real thing. Plus I want to get back into shape, and I can't do it running by myself. I hate to jog and I can't do much other than pushups and crunches inside.

[rawimpact]

Someone from my academy forum posted something very similar. If we're putting these older individuals in quarantine - in a hospital or putting them in a respirator, we are completely exhausting our needs elsewhere. Sure resources should be put towards those 80+ but we should not be reserving beds for them.

They have lived their life. We need to do more for the younger generation...

[Nanners]

If you think that the response to COVID-19 is the primary reason the economy is falling apart, you would best be served by not partaking in economic discussions.

Simply put, it may be the pin that pricked the bubble, but the major underlying issue is the fact that everyone is up to their ears in debt. Our system is designed in such a way that if it stops churning for even a minute, it falls apart. That is not a healthy economy. The United States hasn't had a truly healthy economy since before my lifetime.

The nation's response to COVID-19 is "destroying the economy", though. Ha.

No I actually tend to agree with you.

Lately there have been a lot of warning signs that the economy is facing another major meltdown - incredibly low interest rates, the insanely low price of oil, the fed constantly injecting money into the banks 'repo' markets... one of the only ways that the covid hysteria makes sense is if TPTB are using it as a scapegoat.

[Overdrive]

Yeah it's better to collapse the economy, people to lose their jobs / money / superannuation. Businesses to close, ban people from being outside etc cause of a damn cold

And for all those idiots saying derp it's so the medical system doesn't get bombarded at once, maybe if the stupid media didn't have the green light to go full retard then people wouldn't be carrying on like total idiots.
Damn boomers lining up for an hour before the supermarket opens to buy all the toilet paper and paper towels

It's not a cold though. A big portion of cases leeds to hospitalisation. That by itself is enough to collaps the healthcare system. It's not only able to help covid cases by then, but also other cases. The ICU wouldn't be able to help people and a triage system would be put in place. Any country that didn't install severe measure immediately is on the brink of a collapsing healthcare system. You think the economy doesn't dive if there are 50.000 US citizens in demand of ICU treatment and millions who need hospitalisation?