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Thread: Analysis of the shots LeBron James takes

  1. #16
    Landslide honors LAmbruh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    correct 3ball. thank you.

    I am also going to get you to acknowledge that lebron is in fact indisputably top-5 as you used to argue that he isnt top 15.







    did you actually watch the series?


    nope. absolutely not. mo williams was putrid in that series. MJ on those cavs would absolutely not have beaten that magic team.

    that version of lebron in that series was as good as he was any of the years that he won the championship. so 2012, 2013, 2016. and he was hitting his jumpshots that year and in that series, rendering your other point irrelevant.

    the cavs just couldnt guard the magic and mj wouldnt fix that. the magic had THREE different mismatches that they were exploiting. dwight abusing Z, 6'9 rashard and 6'9 hedo shooting over 6'3 delonte. who was their second best perimeter defender. lebron could only guard one at a time.

    even if mj shut down one of the two between hedo and rashard, it wouldnt make a difference because all 3 players were scorching. dwight finally had someone that he could score on for the only time in his life. we know he sucks on offense.

    not to mention mj would be the only scorer carrying the entire offensive load - mo williams was a complete no-show. 40ppg wouldnt cut it.

    when the magic played the lakers in the next round in the finals, the magic had ZERO mismatches that they could exploit. because ariza was a capable defender and gasol and odom were both mobile and long, and they destroyed dwight. and then kobe and fisher outclutched them. much better team than the 09 cavs.

    every single version of mj would've gotten destroyed playing with delonte west and mo williams and anderson varejao and old Z.

    mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.
    monumental ether


    Red1 showing no regards for 3balls life (again) (and again)

  2. #17
    I said good day, sir! Axe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    this discussion is purely for my own entertainment. 2009 lebron is one of the most complete players to ever touch a basketball in NBA history. dominant in every single aspect of the game and might in fact be my favorite version of lbj. probably the most athletic human being of all time as well.
    Like, how many times have you already said that?

  3. #18
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post

    nope. absolutely not. mo williams was putrid in that series. MJ on those cavs would absolutely not have beaten that magic team.

    Mo was bad in the 09' ECF, but MJ never lost with his sidekick getting 18 on 38% and the #3 team defense

    MJ always won with that..

    The 89' bulls only had the #11 defense and 15 on 40% from Pippen, yet they beat the #1 SRS team in the league.. so they would demolish the #4 SRS Magic with the #3 defense and 18 on 38% from Mo


    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post

    that version of lebron in that series was as good as he was any of the years that he won the championship. so 2012, 2013, 2016. and he was hitting his jumpshots that year and in that series, rendering your other point irrelevant.

    09' Lebron had poor clutch stats in those ECF and didn't know how to win like he did in later years.. So no, Lebron didn't play as well in 09' as he did in later years

    He shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th, so his jumper and clutch sucked - that's why the Cavs were down 1-2 when all 3 games were 1-possession games... MJ would've been up 2-1 or 3-0 because his jumper would've commanded doubles and his off-ball game yielded better ball movement


    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post

    the cavs just couldnt guard the magic and mj wouldnt fix that. the magic had THREE different mismatches that they were exploiting. dwight abusing Z, 6'9 rashard and 6'9 hedo shooting over 6'3 delonte. who was their second best perimeter defender. lebron could only guard one at a time. even if mj shut down one of the two it wouldnt make a difference because all 3 players were scorching. and mj would be the only scorer carrying the entire offensive load - mo williams was a complete no-show.

    Hedo was worse than Mo in that series..

    the Cavs lost because Lebron guarded Courtney Lee instead of Rashard or Hedo, and because lebron couldn't command a double to free up teammates


    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post

    every single version of mj would've gotten destroyed playing with delonte west and mo williams and anderson varejao and old Z.

    Not in Lebron's weak conference - Dwight made the Finals with a weak cast so Lebron has no excuse..

    his weak-shooting, long dribbles simply failed to command double-teams or adjustments


    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post

    mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.
    The 94' Bulls had a 3-peat brand, so they won 55 with only 22 ppg from Pippen..

    Otoh, the 88' Bulls needed 35 ppg and dpoy from MJ to win 50 games because they were building a 3-peat brand and had shit teamwork.. the cast was otherwise equal to 94', but brand was in infancy stage
    Last edited by 3ball; 04-07-2020 at 11:58 PM.

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    kyrie fan red1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Like, how many times have you already said that?
    good. and Im going to keep saying it.



    starting a sentence with "Like," is very feminine by the way. makes you sound like an airhead. just an FYI.

  5. #20
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    good. and Im going to keep saying it.



    starting a sentence with "Like," is very feminine by the way. makes you sound like an airhead. just an FYI.
    09' Lebron wasn't nearly as clutch as later years, and his jumper was worse too

    And his overall game was extremely basic and predictable, far more than later years

    So no - 09' Lebron was athletic, but not the best version of Bron.. not even close tbh.. he had no clue how to win - the most predictable, basic version of lebron, with the weakest clutch and jumper that he's ever had.. he was FAR better player in later years, like 16' or 18'

    Heck, the guy lost 3 times in a row as the favorite from 09-11'... So it wasn't just 09'... He simply had flaws in his game.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    Mo was bad in the 09' ECF, but MJ never lost with his sidekick getting 18 on 38% and the #3 team defense

    MJ always won with that..

    The 89' bulls only had the #11 defense and 15 on 40% from Pippen, yet they beat the #1 SRS team in the league.. so they would demolish the #4 SRS Magic with the #3 defense and 18 on 38% from Mo



    09' Lebron had poor clutch stats in those ECF and didn't know how to win like he did in later years.. So no, Lebron didn't play as well in 09' as he did in later years

    He shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th, so his jumper and clutch ssucked - that's why the Cavs were down 1-2 when all 3 games were 1-possession games... MJ would've been up 2-1 or 3-0 because his jumper would've commanded doubles and his off-ball game yielded better ball movement



    Hedo was worse than Mo in that series..

    the Cavs lost because Lebron guarded Courtney Lee instead of Rashard or Hedo, and because lebron couldn't command a double to free up teammates



    Not in Lebron's weak conference - Dwight made the Finals with a weak cast so Lebron has no excuse




    mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.
    The 94' Bulls had a 3-peat brand, so they won 55 with only 22 ppg from Pippen..

    Otoh, the 88' Bulls needed 35 ppg and dpoy from MJ to win 50 games because they were building a 3-peat brand..
    I appreciate you 3ball because you showed me that lebron is actually the GOAT, if not damn near it. every criticism you've ever had flopped.


    FYI. I have mike as #1 and I have lebron already as the 2nd GOAT and the GOAT of the modern era. meaning if he retired today he's already #2 on the all-time rankings.


    and you drove my point home, my point that basketball is a team sport and that jordan never did shit without a great team. that applies for every champion in NBA history.


    you on the other hand act like mike won 6 championship with zero support, and did it against worldbeaters. I'm obviously right here as well. it IS a team sport and MJ wouldnt have won without great teammates.


    you said scottie was the worst allstar of all time and a fake allstar.


    we all already know that lebron is undeniable top-5 GOAT. its plain as day. I just need him to win so I can say we saw undeniable greatness, even in a polite discussion with a hater.


    lebron has already entertained us long enough. winning is the only thing that matters. one more championship will do it. will completely control the narrative I mean.


    you've already capitulated on one of your major points, that mo williams was better than scottie and that mike would've molded him into a champion. I'm glad that you agree with me now. that was already a ridiculous assertion back then to anyone thinking with a clear mind.


    you're obviously wrong on this subject as well. michael jordan absolutely would not have won against the magic if you swapped in any version of mike in NBA history with lebron on a 1 to 1 basis. that team was too flawed.


    and to reiterate my point - I'm going to be repeating this a lot by the way - michael jordan did not win a single championship without the team that won 55-games without him.
    Last edited by red1; 04-08-2020 at 12:04 AM.

  7. #22
    I said good day, sir! Axe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    good. and Im going to keep saying it.



    starting a sentence with "Like," is very feminine by the way. makes you sound like an airhead. just an FYI.
    You're just beyond delusional. Oh, and you're the one who's actually used to type like a woman here, with all those cussing words and crap.

  8. #23
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    I appreciate you 3ball because you showed me that lebron is actually the GOAT, if not damn near it. every criticism you've ever had flopped. FYI. I have mike as 1. and I have lebron already as the 2nd GOAT and the GOAT of the modern era.

    and you drove my point home that basketball is a team sport and that jordan never did shit without a great team. that applies for every champion in NBA history.

    you on the other hand act like mike won 6 championship with zero support against worldbeaters. I'm obviously right here as well.

    we all already know that lebron is undeniable top-5 GOAT. its plain as day. I just need him to win so I can say we saw undeniable greatness, even in a polite discussion with a hater.

    lebron has already entertained us long enough. winning is the only thing that matters. one more championship will do it. will completely control the narrative I mean.

    you've already capitulated on one of your major points, that mo williams was better than scottie and that mike would've molded him into a champion. I'm glad that you agree with me now. that was already a ridiculous assertion back then to anyone thinking with a clear mind.

    you've obviously wrong on this subject as well. michael jordan absolutely would not have won against the magic if you swapped in any version of mike in NBA history with lebron on a 1 to 1 basis. that team was too flawed.

    and to reiterate my point - I'm going to be repeating this a lot by the way - michael jordan did not win a single championship with the team that won 55-games without him.
    The reason MJ is #1 in:

    - scoring (PPG)
    - efficiency rating (PER)
    - boxscores (BPM)
    - winning contribution (WS/48)
    - 5 of the top 7 VORP seasons
    - clutch


    Is because he had the least help... 2 + 2 = 4

    If a guy wins with the best stats and clutch, then his help was the least - and by "stats", I'm mainly talking ppg (because I know you'll cite 2016, but lebron only averaged 29 PPG and had an equal scoring partner that closed)

  9. #24
    kyrie fan red1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    09' Lebron wasn't nearly as clutch as later years, and his jumper was worse too

    And his overall game was extremely basic and predictable, far more than later years

    So no - 09' Lebron was athletic, but not the best version of Bron.. not even close tbh.. he had no clue how to win - the most predictable, basic version of lebron, with the weakest clutch and jumper that he's ever had.. he was FAR better player in later years, like 16' or 18'

    Heck, the guy lost 3 times in a row as the favorite from 09-11'... So it wasn't just 09'... He simply had flaws in his game.
    false. he was already as clutch as it gets.

  10. #25
    kyrie fan red1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    You're just beyond delusional. Oh, and you're the one who's actually used to type like a woman here, with all those cussing words and crap.
    dude why do you keep following me around? I dont care about your opinion.


    Im having a discussion with my good friend 3ball. I need to checkmate his ass and get a proper ranking before the corona takes him out.


  11. #26
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    false. he was already as clutch as it gets.
    1-2 deficit when all 3 games were 1-possession games

    =

    Not clutch



    So obviously, lebron didn't hit enough shots when it mattered down the stretch

    And this makes sense - down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), Lebron is 41% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for old MJ in 97' and 98' (20% more clutch attempts on better efficiency)..

    So MJ's superior clutch would've had a 2-1 or 3-0 lead.. he never lost to a team as bad as Dwight's Magic

  12. #27
    I said good day, sir! Axe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    dude why do you keep following me around? I dont care about your opinion.


    Im having a discussion with my good friend 3ball. I need to checkmate his ass and get a proper ranking before the corona takes him out.

    Probably to show the troll out of you.

  13. #28
    kyrie fan red1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    The reason MJ is #1 in:

    - scoring (PPG)
    - efficiency rating (PER)
    - boxscores (BPM)
    - winning contribution (WS/48)
    - 5 of the top 7 VORP seasons
    - clutch


    Is because he had the least help... 2 + 2 = 4

    If a guy wins with the best stats and clutch, then his help was the least - and by "stats", I'm mainly talking ppg (because I know you'll cite 2016, but lebron only averaged 29 PPG and had an equal scoring partner that closed)
    FYI Im sorry for being rude to you 3ball Im going to treat you kindly from now on.


    you realize your clinging to stats has backfired right? and the narratives that you use?


    it could not possibly have backfired more spectacularly my beloved 3ball.


    look at the allstar game this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_All-Star_Game


    do you notice something?


    1 all star on the cavaliers (lebron)
    3 all stars on the warriors (steph, klay, dray)


    lebron won the finals MVP that year leading both teams in every single stat. stats, like you like to count.


    lead BOTH teams. every. single. major. stat. with zero allstars.


    you see how easy it is to twist that narrative?


    you said lebron could never win a finals MVP. without a stacked team. too ball-dominant.


    and then he won with zero allstars like you try to claim mike did by calling pippen a fake allstar. and then lebron also won against 3 allstars like you also like to count.


    thats literally the nightmare scenario for you. and draymond suspension and buh buh kyrie wont save you.


    and you want to know the single funniest thing about this all? the greatest irony in it all?


    the main criticism against mj before he won was that he was too ball-dominant. the exact. same. thing. that you used to argue.


    can you bend the knee and please acknowledge that you were wrong? undisputed top-5 of all-time? at the very least top-10 if you're a wild, raging hater?
    Last edited by red1; 04-08-2020 at 12:22 AM.

  14. #29
    kyrie fan red1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    1-2 deficit when all 3 games were 1-possession games

    =

    Not clutch



    So obviously, lebron didn't hit enough shots when it mattered down the stretch

    And this makes sense - down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), Lebron is 41% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for old MJ in 97' and 98' (20% more clutch attempts on better efficiency)..

    So MJ's superior clutch would've had a 2-1 or 3-0 lead.. he never lost to a team as bad as Dwight's Magic
    you didnt watch the series bro. its very evident.

    go watch it and then come back and share your thoughts on how mike would've defended dwight.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers

    Quote Originally Posted by red1 View Post
    FYI Im sorry for being rude to you 3ball Im going to treat you kindly from now on.


    you realize your clinging to stats has backfired right? and the narratives that you use?


    it could not possibly have backfired more spectacularly my beloved 3ball.


    look at the allstar game this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_All-Star_Game


    do you notice something?


    1 all star on the cavaliers (lebron)
    3 all stars on the warriors (steph, klay, dray)


    lebron won the finals MVP that year leading both teams in every single stat. BOTH teams. with zero allstars.


    you see how easy it is to twist that narrative?


    you said lebron could never win a finals MVP. without a stacked team. too ball-dominant.


    and then he won with zero allstars like you try to say by calling pippen a fake allstar, and then won against 3 allstars like you also like to count.


    thats literally the nightmare scenario for you. and draymond suspension and buh buh kyrie wont save you.


    and you want to know the single funniest thing about this all? the greatest irony in it all?


    the main criticism against mj before he won was that he was too ball-dominant. the exact. same. thing. that you used to argue.


    can you bend the knee and please acknowledge that you were wrong? undisputed top-5 of all-time? at the very least top-10 if you're a wild, raging hater?
    You should, he's spanking you.

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