I learned more about the Bulls in this single post than I did in the documentary

[1987_Lakers]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/vie...?f=6&t=1962966

[Stanley Kobrick]

i use to post there, its a very well informative forum with good users

[3ball]

It shows that the bulls BEGGED Seattle to take Pippen for Kemp but Seattle viewed kemp as the "A" side

Probably because of how Pippen averaged 15 on 34% in the 96' Finals, while Kemp dominated

Pippen is severely overrated and it's now a FACT that he was worth less then Kemp... Now we know what MJ won with - a guy that was considered less then Kemp.. like I said all along... Top 30 my f*cking ass ridiculous bullshit

Krause said MJ raised Pippen and made him a man

[HoopsNY]

It shows that the bulls BEGGED Seattle to take Pippen for Kemp but Seattle viewed kemp as the "A" side

Probably because of how Pippen averaged 15 on 34% in the 96' Finals, while Kemp dominated

Pippen is severely overrated and it's now a FACT that he was worth less then Kemp... Now we know what MJ won with - a guy that was considered less then Kemp.. like I said all along... Top 30 my f*cking ass ridiculous bullshit

Krause said MJ raised Pippen and made him a man

I don't think that's fair. Kemp was 26 at the time and Pippen was turning 32. He clearly had a bigger upside and at that point, he was arguably the better player, though it was close.

You really need to fall back with this narrative that Pippen was garbage. As a #2, there wasn't a better option in the league between 1990-1998 until maybe Penny Hardaway and Shawn Kemp in 1996. And that was short lived once Penny started getting injured and Kemp left and went to Cleveland. But for the entirety of those years, Pippen was the best sidekick in the NBA.

[3ball]

I don't think that's fair. Kemp was 26 at the time and Pippen was turning 32. He clearly had a bigger upside and at that point, he was arguably the better player, though it was close.

You really need to fall back with this narrative that Pippen was garbage. As a #2, there wasn't a better option in the league between 1990-1998 until maybe Penny Hardaway and Shawn Kemp in 1996. And that was short lived once Penny started getting injured and Kemp left and went to Cleveland. But for the entirety of those years, Pippen was the best sidekick in the NBA.

basically every year MJ had win with Pip getting outplayed in the following series by the opponent's 2nd or 3rd best player:

88' 1st Rd

89' 1st Rd
89' 2nd Rd

90' ECF

92' ECSF

93' 1st Rd

96' Finals
96' ECF
96' ECSF

And there's probably some series in 97' and 98' but I'm too lazy to look now - I know he was outplayed at the end of the 98' Finals..

Btw, that list doesn't include series that MJ lost (wasn't able to overcome Pippen getting outplayed), aka 88' 2nd Rd.. 89' ECF.. 90' ECF.. 95' ECSF

Finally, the Bulls had the lowest-scoring casts ever because Pippen was frequently getting outplayed and the bulls didn't have a 3rd scorer or any irreplaceable players - every player was different on the 1st and 2nd three-peats except MJ/Pip (replaceable role players)

[GimmeThat]

Krause said MJ raised Pippen and made him a man

Yes, Krause then signs a player who dressed as a women while playing a key role 3-peating

your subconscious of showing you want to see Dennis Rodman bending Jordan over and f*cking him from behind is showing

[3ball]

Yes, Krause then signs a player who dressed as a women while playing a key role 3-peating

your subconscious of showing you want to see Dennis Rodman bending Jordan over and f*cking him from behind is showing

Lol one of your best although I don't read most of yours if you're in gibberish mode

[GimmeThat]

Lol one of your best although I don't read most of yours if you're in gibberish mode

well, your MFM 3-some brain wouldn't be able to understand the MFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF mind.

[Uncle Drew]

Remember when 3ball started posting his nonsense on RealGM and got banned after just 4 posts?

[Axe]

Poor thing.

[3ball]

Remember when 3ball started posting his nonsense on RealGM and got banned after just 4 posts?

I think that was where I listed all of lebron's best teammates - aka Wade, Kyrie, Bosh, Love, Mo - and then showed how their assists cratered alongside lebron, which led to low TEAM assist rankings and massively out-assisted in the Finals

I linked all the stats to nba.com source

In addition to showing the assist reduction (less playmaking), I also showed the increased assisted rate (play-finishing) - aka lebron turns teammates into play-finishers, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that this basic, low-assist brand gets destroyed by everyone on the championship level regardless of cast or opponent

I thought the argument was sound and skilled-based - it wasn't your standard 6/6 argument... It explained why he was 3/9

[HBK_Kliq_2]

basically every year MJ had win with Pip getting outplayed in the following series by the opponent's 2nd or 3rd best player:

88' 1st Rd

89' 1st Rd
89' 2nd Rd

90' ECF

92' ECSF

93' 1st Rd

96' Finals
96' ECF
96' ECSF

And there's probably some series in 97' and 98' but I'm too lazy to look now - I know he was outplayed at the end of the 98' Finals..

Btw, that list doesn't include series that MJ lost (wasn't able to overcome Pippen getting outplayed), aka 88' 2nd Rd.. 89' ECF.. 90' ECF.. 95' ECSF

Finally, the Bulls had the lowest-scoring casts ever because Pippen was frequently getting outplayed and the bulls didn't have a 3rd scorer or any irreplaceable players - every player was different on the 1st and 2nd three-peats except MJ/Pip (replaceable role players)

Pre prime shouldn't be judged, lets only look at Pippen's prime years from 1991-2000

1992 semi finals - Pippen had the 3rd highest GmSc on both teams only to Jordan and Ewing.

1993 1st round - Bulls won in a sweep, you can't knock a guy when his team won in a sweep.

1996 east finals - Pippen averaged 18\7\7 with a 120 offensive rating, best in assists on the team and best defender, also a sweep

1996 east semi finals - 3rd highest GmSc on both teams behind only Jordan\Ewing, 3 steals per game, leader in assists

The 1996 finals is basically the only time you can reasonably knock Scottie Pippen.

[LukeWalton]

yeah reading that makes me feel Pops or Riley GOAT coach, not PJ

[FultzNationRISE]

This part was really fascinating:

One of the big battles that later fractured the Jackson-Krause relationship was Krause's desire to 'be one of the boys' and continuously hang around the team, even though few liked him. This devolved to silly levels: Jordan wanted to be alone in the bathroom for a pre-game ritual, so Krause continually snuck in and 'ambushed him' there. You can't make this stuff up.

Why did MJ want to be alone so badly when he was in the bathroom?

What was he afraid of people finding out?

[3ball]

Pre prime shouldn't be judged, lets only look at Pippen's prime years from 1991-2000

We have to count the pre-prime years because of how bad Pippen was

If he gets 13 on 45% in the 89' ECF (less than his RS numbers), they win... That shouldn't be too much to ask but he got 9.7 on 40%

1992 semi finals - Pippen had the 3rd highest GmSc on both teams only to Jordan and Ewing.

1993 1st round - Bulls won in a sweep, you can't knock a guy when his team won in a sweep.

1996 east finals - Pippen averaged 18\7\7 with a 120 offensive rating, best in assists on the team and best defender, also a sweep

1996 east semi finals - 3rd highest GmSc on both teams behind only Jordan\Ewing, 3 steals per game, leader in assists

The 1996 finals is basically the only time you can reasonably knock Scottie Pippen.

Pippen was outplayed by Penny in the 96' ECF and 95' ECSF - so they both count - someone said Pippen was the best sidekick, so we're finding instances he was outplayed - that's what that long list was - there's tons of examples, most of which MJ overcame, but not all damn you pip