I learned more about the Bulls in this single post than I did in the documentary

[Docs Orders]

This part was really fascinating:




Why did MJ want to be alone so badly when he was in the bathroom?

What was he afraid of people finding out?

[LeCroix]

[Mamba4Life]

[HBK_Kliq_2]

We have to count the pre-prime years because of how bad Pippen was

If he gets 13 on 45% in the 89' ECF (less than his RS numbers), they win... That shouldn't be too much to ask but he got 9.7 on 40%



Pippen was outplayed by Penny in the 96' ECF and 95' ECSF - so they both count - someone said Pippen was the best sidekick, so we're finding instances he was outplayed - that's what that long list was - there's tons of examples, most of which MJ overcame, but not all damn you pip

In the 1996 east finals Pippen had a higher offensive rating by 12 points over Hardaway and also had a higher GmSc over Hardaway as well. Take in consideration the massive defensive gap that Pippen had on Penny. There's no way Pippen was outplayed that series by Penny Hardaway.

1995 ECSF is when Jordan wasn't his usual self and was turning the ball over losing games and that's why he switched his number from 45 to 23

[3ball]

In the 1996 east finals Pippen had a higher offensive rating by 12 points over Hardaway and also had a higher GmSc over Hardaway as well. Take in consideration the massive defensive gap that Pippen had on Penny. There's no way Pippen was outplayed that series by Penny Hardaway.

1995 ECSF is when Jordan wasn't his usual self and was turning the ball over losing games and that's why he switched his number from 45 to 23

The 95' ECSF wouldn't have come down to a couple turnovers by MJ if Pippen averaged say, 22 on 47% (like the RS) instead of 19 on 40% stinker that he put up..

And Penny had more turnovers/lower ortg because he was carrying an actual PG load, while Pippen was carried by the triangle.. And Pippen's defense was bad because he let Penny go off above his normal averages and above his own

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The 95' ECSF wouldn't have come down to a couple turnovers by MJ if Pippen averaged say, 22 on 47% (like the RS) instead of 19 on 40% stinker that he put up..

And Penny had more turnovers/lower ortg because he was carrying an actual PG load, while Pippen was carried by the triangle.. And Pippen's defense was bad because he let Penny go off above his normal averages and above his own

1995 semi finals Pippen was playing for a year and half without Jordan as the clear cut 1st option, Pippen had to adjust and it took more than just 18 games like Jordan allowed the situation to play out to be. Having said all that, Pippen still had them winning until Jordan had the ball stolen from him by Nick Anderson in game 1. If they win game 1 they probably still win the series.

1996 east finals penny was scoring meaningless PPG while getting swept but still was inferior in GmSC to Pippen, offensive rating, also with a massive defense edge for Pippen. I don't see the argument for Penny in that series at all.

[FultzNationRISE]

[GimmeThat]

This part was really fascinating:




Why did MJ want to be alone so badly when he was in the bathroom?

What was he afraid of people finding out?

Lola Bunny, he didn't want others to learn about his relationship with Lola Bunny

[Axe]

Lola Bunny, he didn't want others to learn about his relationship with Lola Bunny

Lmao you have me reminiscing the old space jam movie from the 90s

[Roundball_Rock]

No one thought Kemp was equal to Pippen in 95' (the year of the potential trade) or even 96'. That was the point: Seattle would get the superior player in the short term in the hope of getting over the hump while Chicago would take a step back but get a younger player for the long term. For perspective, Kemp never made all-NBA first team or was a MVP candidate. He was a top 10 player but not a MVP caliber or top 5 player like Pippen.

When Kemp finally was traded it was Vin Baker Seattle got back for him (both were young so there was no short/long term issue). Similar results, not the same hype of Kemp because he couldn't dunk like Kemp. The way people talk about Kemp you would think he was Karl Malone.

3ball is being misleading at best with his posts about Pippen in the playoffs. I had a lengthy thread years ago about Pippen in the playoffs. I'll dig it up.

Pippen's 96' finals was his worst series in the 6 runs but what he doesn't tell you is Pippen had three injuries at the time.

[Roundball_Rock]

Pippen was outplayed by Penny in the 96' ECF and 95' ECSF - so they both count - someone said Pippen was the best sidekick, so we're finding instances he was outplayed - that's what that long list was - there's tons of examples, most of which MJ overcame, but not all damn you pip

1995 ECSF

Pippen 19/10/6 on 41%
Penny 19/4/8 on 44%

Game scores: Pippen 15.8, Penny 15.4

1996 ECF

Pippen 19/7/7 on 45% with 2 steals.
Penny 26/4/4 on on 47% with 1 steal.

Game scores: Pippen 16.6, Penny 15.6

The tell with these guys is when they leave out material information (like partial box scores). Go to basketball-reference and you can easily see why they left it out.

90' ECF

92' ECSF

93' 1st Rd

96' Finals
96' ECF
96' ECSF

92' ECFS was exposed yesterday. Pippen basically matched Ewing's (the NY #1) production and outplayed the Knicks' #2. Pippen had 17/11/11 on 64% in game 7 while his counterpart had only 14/7/0 on 40% with the money on the line.

96' ECSF

Pippen 16/8/5 on 33% with 3 steals
Starks 14/3/3 on 38% with 2 steals

Game scores: Pippen 13.0, Starks 8.1

This wasn't a real series BTW. A 72 win team against a 47 win team.

90' ECF

Pippen 17/6/4 on 43% with 2 steals
Dumars 20/2/4 on 50% with 1 steal

Game scores: Dumars 13.4, Pippen 12.2

So Pippen gets outproduced by the Detroit #2 but the margin is small--not the story you were told--and due to the migraine game. Prior to that he was 19/7/4 on 46% with a game score of 14.6. The migraine game happened though and should count against him. He shouldn't have played 42 minutes while in that condition, though.

basically every year MJ had win with Pip getting outplayed in the following series by the opponent's 2nd or 3rd best player:

Not sure where this "3rd best player" nonsense is coming from.

Also note he listed a handful of series. Think of the lion's share of series he did not list--and why.