Top 5 SRS teams that MJ/Lebron beat with poor stats from #2 (aka carry-jobs)

[RRR3]

So lebron never beat a good team with 15-16 ppg from sidekick, aka never had a carry-job against a good team?.. got it

So don't ever say lebron carried teams because its false - he never beat a top 5 SRS without at least 19-20 PPG from sidekick - he couldn't win with 15-16 ppg like mj... Let alone bad efficiency too

And you taught me that Pippen was outplayed by juwan Howard and Larry Johnson... Tim Hardaway too right? Stockton was a draw you said in 97'?.. Penny outscored him by 7 in 96'... Willis, Nique, and X-man ate his lunch in 92' and 93'.. And on and on..

Beat the #4 SRS Hawks in the ECF in 15 with his highest scoring teammate being JR Smith at 18.0 PPG...

[Roundball_Rock]

The data speaks for itself. It isn't surprising. Any way we slice it, MJ had more help than LeBron or KAJ relative to their respective comp.

We can't compare Pippen and Wade's shooting percentages at face value. 1) Wade didn't take threes, Pippen did during the second threepeat 2) Wade was playing with an all-time great facilitator (his FG % fell from 55 to 47 after LeBron left) and Pippen wasn't.

Here are the top 5 "cast members" in these finals and ECF's (Pippen and Wade bolded):

1991 ECF: Pippen 20.2, V. Johnson 17.0, Grant 13.2, Aguirre 9.4, BJ 8.5
1991 Finals: Pippen 17.5, Divac 16.1, Grant 13.9, Paxson 12.1, Perkins 11.3
1992 ECF: Pippen 17.4, Nance 16.1, Daughtery 15.7, Grant 14.3, Ehlo 11.0
1992 Finals: Pippen 18.1, Porter 12.5, Grant 11.3, Kersey 10.7, Paxson 7.6
1993 ECF: Pippen 15.7, Mason 10.1, Smith 9.6, Grant 8.5, Starks 8.4
1993 Finals: Majerle 17.0, Pippen 15.6, Grant 12.8, Dumas 12.7, BJ 11.2
1996 ECF: Pippen 16.6, Penny 15.6, Rodman 13.0, Kerr 9.0, Harper 8.6
1996 Finals: Kemp 18.9, Pippen 13.4, Rodman 10.2, Schrempf 9.9, Kukoc 9.6
1997 ECF: Hardaway 11.6, Pippen 10.8*, Harper 9.0, Rodman 7.1, Longley/Leonard 5.6
1997 Finals: Pippen 15.1, Stockton 14.9, Russell 7.2, Hornacek 7.1, Kukoc 6.3
1998 ECF: Pippen 13.0, Kukoc 12.6, Smits 10.9, Davis 9.8, Harper 8.5
1998 Finals: Pippen 13.0, Kukoc 11.5, Stockton 10.0, Hornacek/Russell 6.1

*Pippen was at 12.7 through four games but played only 7 minutes in the fifth and final game of the 97’ ECF, which dragged his average down.

2011 ECF: Bosh 18.4, Boozer 12.1, Deng 11.4, Wade 11.1, Noah 7.8
2011 Finals: Wade 22.7, Terry 13.4, Chandler 11.0, Bosh 10.9, Marion 10.0
2012 ECF: Rondo 18.9, Wade 15.4, KG 13.2, Bosh 10.4, Chalmers 9.2
2012 Finals: Westbrook 18.9, Wade 16.4, Bosh 11.9, Battier 9.3, Harden/Chalmers 8.4
2013 ECF: Hibbert 16.9, Wade 11.7, West 11.2, Hill 9.6, Anderson 8.1
2013 Finals: Wade 14.9, Kawhi 14.2, Bosh 12.1, Parker 11.2, Green 10.2
2014 ECF: Wade 15.7, Bosh 12.0, West 11.7, Lance 11.3, Hibbert 8.9
2014 Finals: Kawhi 15.8, Duncan 12.9, Manu 10.9, Diaw 8.5, Mills 8.2

Wade isn't even on the 2014 Finals page because he had the 9th highest game score in the series, right between Patty Mills and Danny Green. If Pippen ever had a finals like that we would hear about it 24/7.

Wade was a great player but LeBron caught only the tail end of his prime and that shows in his playoff performances during LeBron's time in Miami. Meanwhile MJ got all of Pippen's prime, except 94' when MJ retired.

[3ball]

The data speaks for itself. It isn't surprising. Any way we slice it, MJ had more help than LeBron or KAJ relative to their respective comp.

^^^ So jordan's 2nd option didn't have the best gamescore 3 times and Lebron's 4... whooptiwhoo

What's your point.. I bust your shit up real easy and you leave my points unrefuted and ran from... .So I win.. you stan a fraud.

And how many times are you going to run from my Kareem destruction where I show his PPG and RPG averages for 4 Finals that he won and his massive statistical deficit to mj thru 13 seasons?

[LeCroix]

^^^ So jordan's 2nd option didn't have the best gamescore 3 times and Lebron's 4... whooptiwhoo

What's your point.. I bust your shit up real easy and you leave my points unrefuted and ran from... .So I win.. you stan a fraud.

And how many times are you going to run from my Kareem destruction where I show his PPG and RPG averages for 4 Finals that he won and his massive statistical deficit to mj thru 13 seasons?

Mj only won 29 playoff series to kareems GOAT tier 36

Kareem also has #1 all time scoring, MJ is like #6???

[3ball]

Mj only won 29 playoff series to kareems GOAT tier 36

Kareem also has #1 all time scoring, MJ is like #6???

MJ produced more per game, so he's better.. who cares if Kareem held on extra years and was carried

Btw, Wade was only reduced to prime Pippen stats in 13-14.. his 13' Finals was prime Pippen, and his 14' Playoffs easily outproduced Pippen's 93' when both were trying to 3-peat

[1987_Lakers]

MJ produced more per game, so he's better.. who cares if Kareem held on extra years and was carried

Btw, Wade was only reduced to prime Pippen stats in 13-14.. his 13' Finals was prime Pippen, and his 14' Playoffs easily outproduced Pippen's 93' when both were trying to 3-peat

George Gervin has more ppg than Kobe, Kareem, & Bird. What a weak ass argument.

[3ball]

George Gervin has more ppg than Kobe, Kareem, & Bird. What a weak ass argument.

Much better PPG on better efficiency?.. in the playoffs?

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples

But the reality is thst Kareem needed the goat PG at the time to win anything... He needed WAY more help to lose way more Finals - 9 guys were all-stars alongside him compared to 1 for MJ

[1987_Lakers]

Much better PPG on better efficiency?.. in the playoffs?

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples

But the reality is thst Kareem needed the goat PG at the time to win anything... He needed WAY more help to lose way more Finals - 9 guys were all-stars alongside him compared tom1 for MJ

Gervin shot over 50% in the playoffs, 52% in the regular season, pretty efficient if you ask me.

[Roundball_Rock]

We can't compare Pippen and Wade's shooting percentages at face value. 1) Wade didn't take threes, Pippen did during the second threepeat 2) Wade was playing with an all-time great facilitator (his FG % fell from 55 to 47 after LeBron left) and Pippen wasn't.

Here are the top 5 "cast members" in these finals and ECF's (Pippen and Wade bolded):

1991 ECF: Pippen 20.2, V. Johnson 17.0, Grant 13.2, Aguirre 9.4, BJ 8.5
1991 Finals: Pippen 17.5, Divac 16.1, Grant 13.9, Paxson 12.1, Perkins 11.3
1992 ECF: Pippen 17.4, Nance 16.1, Daughtery 15.7, Grant 14.3, Ehlo 11.0
1992 Finals: Pippen 18.1, Porter 12.5, Grant 11.3, Kersey 10.7, Paxson 7.6
1993 ECF: Pippen 15.7, Mason 10.1, Smith 9.6, Grant 8.5, Starks 8.4
1993 Finals: Majerle 17.0, Pippen 15.6, Grant 12.8, Dumas 12.7, BJ 11.2
1996 ECF: Pippen 16.6, Penny 15.6, Rodman 13.0, Kerr 9.0, Harper 8.6
1996 Finals: Kemp 18.9, Pippen 13.4, Rodman 10.2, Schrempf 9.9, Kukoc 9.6
1997 ECF: Hardaway 11.6, Pippen 10.8*, Harper 9.0, Rodman 7.1, Longley/Leonard 5.6
1997 Finals: Pippen 15.1, Stockton 14.9, Russell 7.2, Hornacek 7.1, Kukoc 6.3
1998 ECF: Pippen 13.0, Kukoc 12.6, Smits 10.9, Davis 9.8, Harper 8.5
1998 Finals: Pippen 13.0, Kukoc 11.5, Stockton 10.0, Hornacek/Russell 6.1

*Pippen was at 12.7 through four games but played only 7 minutes in the fifth and final game of the 97’ ECF, which dragged his average down.

2011 ECF: Bosh 18.4, Boozer 12.1, Deng 11.4, Wade 11.1, Noah 7.8
2011 Finals: Wade 22.7, Terry 13.4, Chandler 11.0, Bosh 10.9, Marion 10.0
2012 ECF: Rondo 18.9, Wade 15.4, KG 13.2, Bosh 10.4, Chalmers 9.2
2012 Finals: Westbrook 18.9, Wade 16.4, Bosh 11.9, Battier 9.3, Harden/Chalmers 8.4
2013 ECF: Hibbert 16.9, Wade 11.7, West 11.2, Hill 9.6, Anderson 8.1
2013 Finals: Wade 14.9, Kawhi 14.2, Bosh 12.1, Parker 11.2, Green 10.2
2014 ECF: Wade 15.7, Bosh 12.0, West 11.7, Lance 11.3, Hibbert 8.9
2014 Finals: Kawhi 15.8, Duncan 12.9, Manu 10.9, Diaw 8.5, Mills 8.2

Wade isn't even on the 2014 Finals page because he had the 9th highest game score in the series, right between Patty Mills and Danny Green. If Pippen ever had a finals like that we would hear about it 24/7.

Wade was a great player but LeBron caught only the tail end of his prime and that shows in his playoff performances during LeBron's time in Miami. Meanwhile MJ got all of Pippen's prime, except 94' when MJ retired.

Pippen was 1st in nearly all these series among "cast" members. When he wasn't he was 2nd.

Wade was not 1st a majority of the time. Wade was behind Boozer, Deng, Bosh in the 11' ECF. In the 2014 Finals he was 9th overall and 7th among "cast" members.

If Pippen ever had a Finals where he had the 9th highest game score (a Wade 14' or Kevin Johnson 93' type performance) or an ECF where he was 6th we would never hear the end of it.

[3ball]

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Updated OP stats:



Top 5 SRS teams that MJ/Lebron beat with poor stats from #2 (aka carry-jobs)



Jordan

1989 First Rd vs Cavs (#1 SRS, 57 wins)... 15.0 on 40% from Pippen

1996 Finals vs Sonics (#2 SRS, 64 wins)... 15.7 on 34% from Pippen

1997 ECF vs. Miami (#4 SRS, 61 wins)...... 16.8 on 42% from Pippen

1998 ECF vs. Pacers (#4 SRS, 58 wins)..... 16.6 on 39% from Pippen

1998 Finals vs Jazz (#5 SRS, 62 wins)...... 15.7 on 41% from Pippen

Lebton

2013 Finals vs Spurs (#3 SRS, 58 wins)..... 19.8 on 50.0 ts from Wade

2015 ECF vs. Hawks (#4 SRS, 60 wins)...... 18.0 on 66.4 ts from JR Smith

Lebron never beat a good team without at least 18 on crazy shooting from his sidekick, or 20+ ppg otherwise (never carried a team with a 15-16 sidekick, let alone bad efficiency too, like MJ did 5 times)


(Btw, Bosh averaged 23 ppg on 68 ts against the 11' Bulls, so whoever listed that series for Wade is a weasel. I almost didn't catch it..

[Roundball_Rock]

No matter how you parse the data, MJ had immense help. The real question is why does that make you all insecure?

[3ball]

Pippen was 1st in nearly all these series among "cast" members. When he wasn't he was 2nd.

Wade was not 1st a majority of the time. Wade was behind Boozer, Deng, Bosh in the 11' ECF. In the 2014 Finals he was 9th overall and 7th among "cast" members.

If Pippen ever had a Finals where he had the 9th highest game score (a Wade 14' or Kevin Johnson 93' type performance) or an ECF where he was 6th we would never hear the end of it.

Wade didn't need to be #1 sidekick because Bosh took over sometimes, like the 11' ECF (23 on 60%)

Overall, lebrons sidekick didn't have the best gamescore 4 times and Jordan 3 times.. so who cares.. you wasted a lot of time on gamescore - there's other stats that differentiate the casts better and show Pippen was destroyed frequently by many different guys

And 14' Wade significantly out-produced 93' Pippen across the board in their respective playoff runs.. Wade had a bad Finals, but Pippen's 96' was equally bad, and his 93' was nearly as bad (45.9 ts)... Wade's 14' Finals and Mo's 09' ECF are the kind of series that jordan WINS (see the op)

[Mamba4Life]

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Updated OP stats:



Top 5 SRS teams that MJ/Lebron beat with poor stats from #2 (aka carry-jobs)



Jordan

1989 First Rd vs Cavs (#1 SRS, 57 wins)... 15.0 on 40% from Pippen

1996 Finals vs Sonics (#2 SRS, 64 wins)... 15.7 on 34% from Pippen

1997 ECF vs. Miami (#4 SRS, 61 wins)...... 16.8 on 42% from Pippen

1998 ECF vs. Pacers (#4 SRS, 58 wins)..... 16.6 on 39% from Pippen

1998 Finals vs Jazz (#5 SRS, 62 wins)...... 15.7 on 41% from Pippen

Lebton

2013 Finals vs Spurs (#3 SRS, 58 wins)..... 19.8 on 50.0 ts from Wade

2015 ECF vs. Hawks (#4 SRS, 60 wins)...... 18.0 on 66.4 ts from JR Smith

Lebron never beat a good team without at least 18 on crazy shooting from his sidekick, or 20+ ppg otherwise (never carried a team with a 15-16 sidekick, let alone bad efficiency too, like MJ did 5 times)


(Btw, Bosh averaged 23 ppg on 68 ts against the 11' Bulls, so whoever listed that series for Wade is a weasel. I almost didn't catch it..

4 and 2 vs 12 and 10

[Mamba4Life]

Wade didn't need to be #1 sidekick because Bosh took over sometimes, like the 11' ECF (23 on 60%)

Overall, lebrons sidekick didn't have the best gamescore 4 times and Jordan 3 times.. so who cares.. you wasted a lot of time on gamescore - there's other stats that differentiate the casts better and show Pippen was destroyed frequently by many different guys

And 14' Wade significantly out-produced 93' Pippen across the board in their respective playoff runs.. Wade had a bad Finals, but Pippen's 96' was equally bad, and his 93' was nearly as bad (45.9 ts)... Wade's 14' Finals and Mo's 09' ECF are the kind of series that jordan WINS (see the op)

Do you admit Rodman outproduced MJ in the 1996 Finals?

[LeCroix]

Do you admit Rodman outproduced MJ in the 1996 Finals?

Shawn Kemp had a better GmSc then MJ in 96 Finals

Pippen and Rodman bailed MJ out (again)