I'm going to try and watch every Bulls playoff game from '90 to '98

[3ball]

supporting cast going 24/30 in the biggest game of the season to that point.

Title teams with lowest scoring supporting casts for the overall playoffs

Post-1954 (Shot Clock Era)


10. 1994 Rockets - 68.3 PPG
9. 2006 Heat - 67.8 PPG
8. 1993 Bulls - 67.3 PPG
7. 2012 Heat - 67.0 PPG
6. 1996 Bulls - 66.7 PPG
5. 1992 Bulls - 65.9 PPG
4. 2004 Pistons - 65.6 PPG
3. 1999 Spurs - 65.2 PPG
2. 1997 Bulls - 61.5 PPG
1. 1998 Bulls - 60.8 PPG

^^^^ Jordan had the lowest-scoring casts ever, so pointing out one-offs is pretty dumb... Isn't it?

supporting cast going 24/30 in the biggest game of the season to that point.

Paxson, Grant and Cartwright weren't super-talented - so 24-30 efficiency means they mastered the system and goat brand of basketball - it doesn't mean they were secretly all-star caliber but the media hid it...

And their ability to play in the system is ALLOWED by Jordan accepting the offense and being skilled enough to score goat amounts in the system.. If MJ can't get 30+ in that system - the bulls don't win... So mj's skill was the lynchpin for everything..

He DID have down games, unclutch moments, etc that are part of the story as well

You fear that people think he never missed a shot?

That's why you're watching all the games?... To show that MJ missed shots too?... Everyone knows that already...

But the reality is that MJ's clutch dominance is unmatched in history - no one is close...

For example - in the last 5 minutes of tight playoff games (last 5 within 5), lebron shot 41% on 3.0 attempts per game from 04-18', compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for 97' and 98' Jordan... So a big gap..

the "myth" is a little exaggerated

6/6 and the best clutch we've ever seen isn't an exaggeration

6 rings in 11 full seasons - not a myth

5 more ppg than everyone in playoff history, on better efficiency per possession than any wing ever - not a myth (edit: 4 more than AI)

the "myth" is a little exaggerated


.

Since your entire objective was to expose the "myth", there's no chance you've been watching all the games - you already have your agenda... Exposed..

[ArbitraryWater]

surely mods should prevent 3ball from clogging up this thread, right?

[Indian guy]

what else do you want me to say besides closed the game out.

What's the point of saying anything then? Nobody's in this thread for stellar analysis like "he played well" and "they shot well". We can gather that just by looking at the boxscore. The whole point of this thread is to look beyond the boxscore. Skill-sets, athleticism, defense, offensive systems. That's what we are looking for. And part of that is capturing how someone fared in big moments. If a player is going to take over the last 3 minutes of OT by either scoring or assisting on 10 straight points in a tie game, then it SHOULD be mentioned. Someone going 33/13 on 15-18 FG in a must-win game should be mentioned. Someone scoring 46 points should be mentioned.

Like I said, I think Jordan is the GOAT but it's also fair to point out the "myth" is a little exaggerated.

And there we go. The primary reason for this thread.

I guess come Game 5 of the Finals, we should be prepared for Paxson bailing MJ out and how he should've really been Finals MVP.

[Carbine]

You're more than welcome to not reply to the thread Mr. Indian

The reason for the thread is to educate myself, form my own opinions by watching the games. I'm sure people will still spew this nonsense of "Pippen shutting down Magic" in the finals and how that was the changing point of the series. **** I bought into it because I heard it so much...... but now I know what actually happened. I had no idea Cartwright was such a solid low post scorer, now I know. Vlade has shown me things I never assumed he could do..... he was an excellent player.


Game 4 was interesting. Someone mentioned here earlier how awful Byron Scott was, and boy has he ever been a no show. He cannot buy a bucket so far through 4 games, he is shooting damn near 20 percent. Pretty awful considering the quality of shots he gets to take.

And Perkins, was 1-15 this game I do believe. He was great in the first bit of this series but this game was such a massive stinker for him. It's why I find it obnoxious for people to gloss over these facts, they're such a big part of why a game was won or lost. Unfortunately or the Lakers, two of their best role players didn't show up whatsoever in a pivotal game and were HUGE negatives. Worthy going out of the game with his injury changed the complexion of the game.

Jordan had an excellent defensive sequence in a 9 pt game with 3-4 minutes to go in the game, making a nice help block from behind. He played a very steady game, something that I have noticed with his footwork that he changed at some point later in his career is the footwork on his fade over the right shoulder. His left foot is kicked out further on the flight of his jump where later on in his career his right foot became the "guide" foot.

[3ball]

And there we go. The primary reason for this thread.

I guess come Game 5 of the Finals, we should be prepared for Paxson bailing MJ out and how he should've really been Finals MVP.

.. his own words

"I want to dispel MJ myths"

He was more honest saying that than his game "reviews"

[Carbine]

My own words? I said that?

Is that what people do here? Take a quote, distort it into something entirely different, and say you word for word said it?

Lol. Wtf?

[Carbine]

Vlade was such a skilled player. He did something in this game I didn't think he had in him. A rebound, coast to coast dribbling around defenders into a reverse lay up. He made it but the time expires on the end of quarter.

Game 5 was a great defensive performance by Jordan, with help from Pippen. Jordan had pass deflects that directly led to easy fast break buckets, steals, etc. So did Pippen, especially in the third. probably 5 impact defensive plays the directly lead to easy hoops between those two.

This was a bad game for Magic. So many unforced turnovers to go along with Jordan getting one of his tip deflections off him as well.

It's a tight game heading into the fourth. Last quarter of this playoff.

[Micku]

What in the world are you talking about?

Jordan's career usage rate is 33.3% compared to LeBrons's 31.5%

Just for giggles, MJ's TOV% is 9.3 to LeBron's 13.1.

Jordan had the ball more often and committed fewer turnovers.

I don't know if anybody commented on this or not.
But Usage rate does not mean you have the ball more. It indicates how often the team offense run through you. It's based FGA, FTA, and TOV relative to the team's FGA, FTA and TOV. Again, it doesn't mean he holds the ball more than another player. It's a common misunderstanding of that stat. Even analysis on TV does it. But it does not mean player touches of the ball.

This is the formula:
100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)).

It's shot creation relative to the team than touching the ball. You can see many examples of this and even look at some stats yourself. The nba.com I think have stats that do time of possession, and that's what you use. Not usage rate.

[Carbine]

Magic really started playing well with his playmaking in the fourth. That was vintage Magic.

I have a new respect for Paxton. I've always thought of him as a replaceable league average type player. He's so solid, tough defensively and just one of the best shooting displays from a role player I've seen for an entire playoff run. He was deadeye, I wouldn't be surprised if he shot close to 70 percent this series.

This is why I watch this stuff. I had no idea Paxton was the one who broke this game open and basically closed it in the fourth Q. He was like 5/5 or 6/6 in this fourth quarter.

Pippen was back to his 1B type offensive ways this game too. Jordan was steady as ever, leading with his defense and efficient offense.

One thing on Jordan. His athletisicm gets talked about enough, but one part of his athletic ability that doesn't get talked about near enough is his flexibility. He is able to get so low on his drives while maintaining balance at his height is exceptionally rare.

This Bulls team was a squad. No doubt about it.

[Micku]

Magic really started playing well with his playmaking in the fourth. That was vintage Magic.

I have a new respect for Paxton. I've always thought of him as a replaceable league average type player. He's so solid, tough defensively and just one of the best shooting displays from a role player I've seen for an entire playoff run. He was deadeye, I wouldn't be surprised if he shot close to 70 percent this series.

This is why I watch this stuff. I had no idea Paxton was the one who broke this game open and basically closed it in the fourth Q. He was like 5/5 or 6/6 in this fourth quarter.

Pippen was back to his 1B type offensive ways this game too. Jordan was steady as ever, leading with his defense and efficient offense.

One thing on Jordan. His athletisicm gets talked about enough, but one part of his athletic ability that doesn't get talked about near enough is his flexibility. He is able to get so low on his drives while maintaining balance at his height is exceptionally rare.

This Bulls team was a squad. No doubt about it.

Paxson was on fire all series if I can recall. Dude was a sharpshooter that series.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Magic really started playing well with his playmaking in the fourth. That was vintage Magic.

I have a new respect for Paxton. I've always thought of him as a replaceable league average type player. He's so solid, tough defensively and just one of the best shooting displays from a role player I've seen for an entire playoff run. He was deadeye, I wouldn't be surprised if he shot close to 70 percent this series.

This is why I watch this stuff. I had no idea Paxton was the one who broke this game open and basically closed it in the fourth Q. He was like 5/5 or 6/6 in this fourth quarter.

Pippen was back to his 1B type offensive ways this game too. Jordan was steady as ever, leading with his defense and efficient offense.

One thing on Jordan. His athletisicm gets talked about enough, but one part of his athletic ability that doesn't get talked about near enough is his flexibility. He is able to get so low on his drives while maintaining balance at his height is exceptionally rare.

This Bulls team was a squad. No doubt about it.

They only get better as the years go on

Stacked beyond belief.

[Micku]

They only get better as the years go on

Stacked beyond belief.

I disagree that they were stacked beyond belief. Imo, that was like the 80s Lakers, 76ers or Celts. They were more unproven at the time, but they did have talent and a well oiled machine.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I disagree that they were stacked beyond belief. Imo, that was like the 80s Lakers, 76ers or Celts. They were more unproven at the time, but they did have talent and a well oiled machine.

It's all relative to the comp, those 80s teams you mentioned competed with each other.

[Roundball_Rock]

at how MJ stans went from hailing the thread and OP to vilifying him.

The OP doesn't appear to have an agenda. Yeah he is critical of MJ at times but so what? He criticizes other Bulls too, like Pippen and Grant for example. If you are going to watch every single playoff game you are going to see duds from any player. MJ may be GOAT but he didn't walk on water. No need to crucify the guy for providing commentary based on his observations.

It's all relative to the comp, those 80s teams you mentioned competed with each other.

That is what always gets ignored. The early 80's had the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers as great teams. When the Sixers faded the Pistons emerged to take their place. When the Celtics faded the Bulls emerged. In the 90's when the Pistons faded no team emerged to replace them nor did a team emerge to replace the Lakers (who, unlike the Bulls without MJ, sucked without Magic). So the Bulls stood alone the entire run. No other all-time great team had that luxury. Even the 60's Celtics faced the 67' Sixers, who are universally considered an all-time great team.

[Phoenix]

Where are we with this, OP? Have you started the 92 run yet?