I'm going to try and watch every Bulls playoff game from '90 to '98

[3ball]

Im not talking about post ups where they force Magic baseline into help. Magic got by him plenty enough from the perimeter into the middle of the defense - this is not good defense. You don't let the best PG ever into the teeth of your defense.

Magic really played his ass off in the first Q of game 3. He controlled the game from the post. Beautiful to watch.

That forcing baseline double off of Magic posts ups wasn't such a good idea. Magic has dominated that strategy so far.

Please let us know exactly how many quarters that Pippen guards Magic in the 91' Finals

I have Pippen on Magic for zero minutes in games 1 or 5 and the last 4 minutes of game 4 .. then he guards Magic for 2nd, 3rd and 4th of game 2, and 2nd/3rd of game 3... That's 6 of 20 quarters for Pippen, and 14/20 for
Jordan (and Jordan for the game 3 OT)

[3ball]

.
91' Jordan Playoffs... 36.7 assist %... 32.7 usage.. guarded Dumars and Isiah
91' Pippen Playoffs... 22.7 assist %... 25.0 usage.. guarded Aguirre

91' Jordan Finals... 45.8 assist %... 31.9 usage... guarded Magic 14 of 20 qtr
91' Pippen Finals... 21.5 assist %... 26.0 usage... guarded Magic.. 6 of 20 qtr



^^^ MJ assisted on 70-120% more possessions and finished 30% more possessions.. that's the 2nd-best two-way carry job ever, behind mj's 92' Finals.

Magic is normally guarded by forwards, but everyone knew Pippen couldn't handle it in his first Finals, so MJ guarded him to start and most of the series

Btw... In addition to MJ having higher assist % and usage, MJ had higher efficiency on those possessions (125 ortg to 114 for Pippen)

[aceman]

Pippen just switched on him and again got by him easily from the top of the key into the middle of the defense.

If you think that's good defense, or a "gameplan" I don't know what to say to that. It's not a conversation I'm willing to entertain.

One thing is for sure, Phil loves sending Magic baseline into help defense off iso post ups in the block.

So many guys have beautiful footwork in the post, Worthy is a hell of a post up player. He gave Pippen buckets to start this game.

I guess it fits the era. That was the game back then so that's the required skills needed for it.

Magic took almost three times the shots from game one & had a poor percentage so it worked. From memory magic resorted to getting by Pippen almost immediately to avoid pressure but forced magic to take shot was not in Lakers interest

[Sarcastic]

Magic was pretty much unstoppable still in 91, no matter who was on him. He was 1 year removed from MVP. He wasn't anything close to washed up, or old as some people have said.

[3ball]

Magic was pretty much unstoppable still in 91, no matter who was on him. He was 1 year removed from MVP. He wasn't anything close to washed up, or old as some people have said.

Exactly, Pippen had a few good possessions on Magic at first but then got destroyed like anyone else

The stats show that Magic did well against both MJ and Pippen... But "well" isn't nearly enough when MJ is playing better than anyone ever has

[Nikola_]

So Pippen didnt really shut down Magic.

This is rare argument in Pippens favor which turns out to be false

[Overdrive]

If all Lebron stans(stans not the trolls who dgaf about bball anyway) would do this alot of the agenda driven bullshit would stop.

[aceman]

So Pippen didnt really shut down Magic.

This is rare argument in Pippens favor which turns out to be false

Magic didn't think so;
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...6Mlmt7rdIDn_Fp

[Carbine]

MJ was the primary defender this game when he was in there. Pippen grabbed him a few possessions and Magic beat him.

This wasn't a good overall game for MJ. He was particularly bad in the second half..... it was a frustrating game for him on both sides. He couldn't stop Magic from doing what he wanted and he couldn't get much going on the other end. Until the end, when the team needed it most - I think this is what encapsulated Jordan. He was having his worst offensive stretch of the post season.... but he made the game tying shot, and closed it out in the overtime.

We remember those moments. Not how ineffective he was up until that point.

Levingstone deserves a lot of credit. He was great in his minutes. Paxton was hitting big shots too, particularly to stop the bleeding in the third Q.

Speaking of Pippen, he made 3 impact plays on defense in the 4th Q, along with some nice buckets (also missed quite a few too) but overall, his man to man defense is extremely ordinary this post season run. I'd say bad as far as stopping players go.

This was a series defining game. 2-1 for the Lakers with another two to go at the Forum could have been a very different series.

Overall Jordan had one of his two worst games of the post season here, but had the memorable moment at the end.

[Carbine]

Something that popped in my head while watching this series, especially the Jordan/Magic battle is we always here about Magic and Jordan were equals on offense, but Jordan was a lockdown defender so he's just the better player.

On paper it makes sense. A lot of sense.

But in this player comparison, MJ's defense had no effect on Magic. He was still out there being Magic Johnson being defended by Jordan.

If Magics offense was so good that MJ's defense couldn't mitigate it at least somewhat, why does MJ's defense get brought up in this discussion when debating between the two as players?

[3ball]

MJ was the primary defender this game when he was in there. Pippen grabbed him a few possessions and Magic beat him.

This wasn't a good overall game for MJ. He was particularly bad in the second half..... it was a frustrating game for him on both sides. He couldn't stop Magic from doing what he wanted and he couldn't get much going on the other end. Until the end, when the team needed it most - I think this is what encapsulated Jordan. He was having his worst offensive stretch of the post season.... but he made the game tying shot, and closed it out in the overtime.

We remember those moments. Not how ineffective he was up until that point.

Levingstone deserves a lot of credit. He was great in his minutes. Paxton was hitting big shots too, particularly to stop the bleeding in the third Q.

Speaking of Pippen, he made 3 impact plays on defense in the 4th Q, along with some nice buckets (also missed quite a few too) but overall, his man to man defense is extremely ordinary this post season run. I'd say bad as far as stopping players go.

This was a series defining game. 2-1 for the Lakers with another two to go at the Forum could have been a very different series.

Overall Jordan had one of his two worst games of the post season here, but had the memorable moment at the end.

You're obviously talking about game 3... Pippen commits the idiotic foul on Divac that lost the game... If not for MJ... Fortunately, Pippen fouled out on that play so he wasn't there to be useless in the OT (clutch)...

That's where the GOAT took over by locking Magic up and hitting his signature catch-and-spin reverse on the baseline... Only MJ pulls out sophisticated moves like that in the clutch - the defense has no idea where he'll catch the ball and they only have a second to react once he does.. the biggest boss ever with the ball in his hands... The authority that he approaches the rim with is unmatched

[Da_Realist]

Something that popped in my head while watching this series, especially the Jordan/Magic battle is we always here about Magic and Jordan were equals on offense, but Jordan was a lockdown defender so he's just the better player.

On paper it makes sense. A lot of sense.

But in this player comparison, MJ's defense had no effect on Magic. He was still out there being Magic Johnson being defended by Jordan.

If Magics offense was so good that MJ's defense couldn't mitigate it at least somewhat, why does MJ's defense get brought up in this discussion when debating between the two as players?

I think it's a simplistic way to compare the two players. However to answer your question...the Lakers would never have Magic be the primary defender on MJ for a reason.

[Da_Realist]

Any thoughts on MJ's playmaking? I believe he out-assisted Magic through the first 4 games.

[light]

Any thoughts on MJ's playmaking? I believe he out-assisted Magic through the first 4 games.

He did because he was trying to win an individual assist competition with Magic, but he is not naturally awesome like that. It's not MJ's game to put up 36 points and 12 assists on a regular basis like he did in game 1 (that was in fact the only time Jordan put up 36/12 in a playoff game).

For some reason MJ only forced himself to be better when he was motivated by his rivalry with Magic (in 1989 and in the 1991 Finals), otherwise he would default to ball hog with Phil Jackson yelling at him to pass to the open teammate.

[Da_Realist]

He did because he was trying to win an individual assist competition with Magic, but he is not naturally awesome like that. It's not MJ's game to put up 36 points and 12 assists on a regular basis like he did in game 1 (that was in fact the only time Jordan put up 36/12 in a playoff game).

For some reason MJ only forced himself to be better when he was motivated by his rivalry with Magic (in 1989 and in the 1991 Finals), otherwise he would default to ball hog with Phil Jackson yelling at him to pass to the open teammate.

He had 33 and 13 the very next game...

Plus he had twelve 30+ points 10+ assists playoff games not including the 1991 Finals. He had fifteen total. Included in this total are three 40+ 10+ playoff games (none of them were in the 91 Finals). Just missing the cut were two Finals games where he posted 39 and 10+... and four more playoff games where he posted 40+ and 9 assists.