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Thread: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

  1. #106
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer tpols's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock View Post
    Miller ceded a ton of work to that Smits .
    Yup... there's one ball that needs to be in somebody's hands at all times on offense.

    Reggie Miller was an off ball player so that involved it not being in his hands 99% of the time despite leading his team in scoring by a big amount.

    You and kblaze seemed to get a kick out of that and think it's a detraction. When in reality it's a positive. He allowed his teammates to thrive and provided decoy action to help further.

    In addition, he scored the most points, hit all the biggest shots, and demoralized opponents with his words. (shout out Larry)

    That's just how it was.

  2. #107
    Great college starter
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    I notice folks use Backpicks in other threads but want to pretend the Miller page doesn't exist. Let's see:





    Oh and this bit:

    Miller’s three-year peak scoring is a level below Allen Iverson and George Gervin, but their efficiency pales in comparison to Reggie’s. Fittingly, Ray Allen, the player most historically linked with Miller, matches Miller’s efficiency with nearly an identical shape.

    However, something remarkable happened in the playoffs. In the Second Season, most stars see a slight decline in their numbers, the result of facing harder defenses that game plan for them. But Miller shows (perhaps) the greatest improvement from regular season to postseason of any notable player in history. His scoring spikes with no drop in his efficiency. So, despite more modest regular season numbers, Miller’s prime scoring rates in the playoffs were in the 97th percentile, comparable to rates from prime Kareem Adbul-Jabbar, Julius Erving and Larry Bird, all while maintaining his elite efficiency
    But sure lets throw all that out cuz "usage" lol

  3. #108
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    You and kblaze seemed to get a kick out of that
    Out of reaching the same conclusion his own coaches reached? They realized he was not a superstar and worked around his limits. According to people 25 years later, he should have taken 21 shots a game and averaged 30 PPG if only those dummies unleashed him.

    His coaches knew he couldn't scale up to a real #1 option workload. The only evidence we have been presented to suggest otherwise is Miller playing 40+ (as much as 44 MPG) in some playoff years. He was still doing the same thing as in the RS--the minutes inflate the totals but not what his per minute role was. He wasn't suddenly taking on a ton more shots because he couldn't create his own shot, beat people off the dribble, was reliant on screens to get open, etc.

    Reggie Miller was an off ball player so that involved it not being in his hands 99% of the time despite leading his team in scoring by a big amount.
    What big amounts?

    1990: Miller 25, Person 20, Schrempf/Smits 16
    1991: Miller 23, Person 18, Scrempf 16
    1992: Miller 21, Person 19, Schrempf 17
    1993: Miller 21, Schrempf 19, Smits 14
    1994: Miller 20, Smits 16, McKey 12
    1995: Miller 20, Smits 18, McKey 13
    1996: Miller 21, Smits 19, McKey 12
    1997: Miller 22, Smits 17, Davis 11
    1998: Miller 20, Smits 17, Mullin 11
    1999: Miller 18, Smits 15, Rose 11
    2000: Rose 18, Miller 18, Smits 13

    The big amounts were back when the team sucked. As KBlaze pointed out, Larry Brown sat him down when he took over and explained what his role would need to be on a winning team...The second leading scorer was usually within 2-3 PPG of him from 1992-1999 and in 2000 Rose eclipsed him as the leading scorer. These numbers actually make it look better for Miller because Smits could not play the minutes Miller did due to foul trouble/stamina. He wasn't a typical "21 PPG" first option...

    According to you elsewhere, scoring 20 PPG is not being a good scorer. Miller averaged 20.8 PPG for the 1990-2000 period. The reason this is at issue is it was the only thing he did of value on the court. He was a zero as a playmaker, defender, or rebounder. So if he is only at 20.8 at his one big skill that is a problem.
    Last edited by Roundball_Rock; 05-26-2020 at 08:07 PM.

  4. #109
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer tpols's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    The funniest thing about that graph is AI's triangle. It's wide, but look at the upper and lower Y axis.



    It's completely stunted below everybody else to a retarded degree. Which is very bad.

    And Reggie's?

    The PEAK of the mountain.


  5. #110
    Local High School Star Reggie43's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Atleast Kblaze was informative despite the contrast in opinions, while the other dude is

  6. #111
    Local High School Star Monta Ellis MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    I don’t want to sound like a bully but Roundball Rock might be the worst poster on this forum.

  7. #112
    I said good day, sir! Axe's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monta Ellis MVP View Post
    I don’t want to sound like a bully but Roundball Rock might be the worst poster on this forum.

  8. #113
    College superstar bizil's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Quote Originally Posted by tpols View Post
    Klay simply didnt bring it in the playoffs like reggie did.

    A lot of us here have watched most of the warriors playoff games. i know i have. Klay is extremely, extremely inconsistent scoring in the playoffs.

    He's also not an elite help defender, just a simple man defender. Im rewatching pacers defense in the 90s, and reggie was feisty as hell playing man defense.

    Klays woeful offense by comparison doesnt even begin to bridge the small gap between what they do on defense.
    Bottom line is Klay EASILY is a better defender. He just made the All Defensive Team last season. And Klay is one of the GOAT marksmen like Miller. Who racks up 20 PPG seasons in his sleep.

    For you to EVEN IMPLY Reggie is close to Klay's level as a defender is laughable. Being a fiesty defender AND AN ELITE defender is two different things. Just saying Klay is on Miller's level as a marksman. And a WAY SUPERIOR defender. Sure Reggie has had the more iconic playoff career. BUT Klay is deferring to guys like Steph Curry and KD. Guys who are among the top 15-20 GOAT!

  9. #114
    Local High School Star Monta Ellis MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    Bottom line is Klay EASILY is a better defender. He just made the All Defensive Team last season. And Klay is one of the GOAT marksmen like Miller. Who racks up 20 PPG seasons in his sleep.

    For you to EVEN IMPLY Reggie is close to Klay's level as a defender is laughable. Being a fiesty defender AND AN ELITE defender is two different things. Just saying Klay is on Miller's level as a marksman. And a WAY SUPERIOR defender. Sure Reggie has had the more iconic playoff career. BUT Klay is deferring to guys like Steph Curry and KD. Guys who are among the top 15-20 GOAT!
    The last sentence sums everything up nicely. Somehow with much better teammates, gameplans, and modern rules freeing up perimeter scoring; Klay Thompson still doesnít have better scoring numbers than Reggie and is less efficient. Put Klay in Reggie Millerís situation and you would get some very ugly numbers.

  10. #115
    NBA sixth man of the year NBAGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    reggie is better. his foul drawing antics are unlikable but effective. 40%ftr for a shooter is an absurd historical outlier. He didnt win shit because his best teammate ever who was really a 3rd option on a contender(not even a super team). klay's in like in the bottom 20% of volume scorers as a foul drawer. Makes his efficiency just good instead of top tier even though he's an all time great shooter. perimeter defense granted very good perimeter defense isnt enough to make up the difference on offense imo

  11. #116
    College superstar bizil's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    I get posters preferring Reg scoring wise. BUT if Reg was playing with Steph Curry, HE WOULD BE the 2nd option as well just like Klay. If it was Steph and KD, he would be the THIRD OPTION just like Klay was. Sorry scoring wise, I don't see this huge scoring gap between the two. The GAP BETWEEN THEM on defense is WAY LARGER than the gap scoring the rock.

  12. #117
    Local High School Star Monta Ellis MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    I get posters preferring Reg scoring wise. BUT if Reg was playing with Steph Curry, HE WOULD BE the 2nd option as well just like Klay. If it was Steph and KD, he would be the THIRD OPTION just like Klay was. Sorry scoring wise, I don't see this huge scoring gap between the two. The GAP BETWEEN THEM on defense is WAY LARGER than the gap scoring the rock.
    Klay Thompson’s playoff OBPM and DBPM is 1.2 and -0.5 for a total of 0.7.

    Reggie Miller’s playoff OBPM and DBPM is 5.0 and 0 for a total of 5.0.


    Reggie’s playoff ppg 20.6

    Klay Thompson’s playoff ppg 19.3

    Reggie’s playoff TS% and Ortg .601 and 119

    Klay’s playoff TS% and Ortg .560 and 107

    I don’t see how Klay is even close to Reggie offensively even in a much easier offensive situation while playing for the Warriors’ Dynasty. The gap in defense isn’t what you are making it out to be either. Reggie Miller is on a different tier than Klay Thompson. These numbers also have games from Miller far past his prime that take down his averages.
    Last edited by Monta Ellis MVP; 05-26-2020 at 11:19 PM.

  13. #118
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    I get posters preferring Reg scoring wise. BUT if Reg was playing with Steph Curry, HE WOULD BE the 2nd option as well just like Klay. If it was Steph and KD, he would be the THIRD OPTION just like Klay was. Sorry scoring wise, I don't see this huge scoring gap between the two. The GAP BETWEEN THEM on defense is WAY LARGER than the gap scoring the rock.
    yea i just dont think perimeter man defense matters that much. as long as draymond tries, gs would be a top 10 defense even without klay. even if it was a sieve like jj reddick who can replace most of klay's offensive value. I'm one of the biggest cp3 fans here. He's a great offensive player in his own right, some years I think he was legitimately top 3. I'll even admit his great defense is not nearly enough to put his peak on the lvl of curry's because they're perimeter guys. Yes kg's defense could easily elevate his peak over barkley/malone or hakeem's defense could put him on the lvl of shaq but they're bigs who shot block or do everything.

    The efficiency edge because of free throws really does matter. the mid 90's pacers are practically the only modern larry brown team to be good to above average on offense and a lot of that is because of miller's combo of volume/efficiency.

    There's also more to offense than scoring, the 1.5apg seems small but is significant. klay oftens feels like a black hole on offense so he's mostly creating for teammates through gravity and it's a bit mitigated too on the warriors with curry.

  14. #119
    Local High School Star BigShotBob's Avatar
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    I get posters preferring Reg scoring wise. BUT if Reg was playing with Steph Curry, HE WOULD BE the 2nd option as well just like Klay. If it was Steph and KD, he would be the THIRD OPTION just like Klay was. Sorry scoring wise, I don't see this huge scoring gap between the two. The GAP BETWEEN THEM on defense is WAY LARGER than the gap scoring the rock.
    Klay's all time "great shooting" disappears in the playoffs compared to Reggie, especially in the clutch when the game matters the most.

  15. #120
    NBA sixth man of the year
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    Default Re: How overrated has Klay Thompson become?

    extremely, since he's a shooting guard who can't organize an offense and can't play alongside any play makers that aren't primarily 3-pt shooters

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