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Thread: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

  1. #31
    City of Angels LoneyROY7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    OP, you don't seem to be very pragmatic when it comes to Stephen Curry. You seem to be far too emotionally invested.

    It really hurts your credibility when it comes to discussing his basketball exploits.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephonit View Post
    Magic once led a team that was stacked with veteran players to a 65-win season in a weak conference. Curry led a team of conference finals first-timers to a 67-win season and then followed that up with two more 67+ win seasons. I don't really see Magic contributing to more winning. Win shares? Curry creates many plays due to his gravity for which he gets no credit in the assists column upon which win shares relies. Curry wasn't given the reins to the team early on either unlike Magic so his numbers started low but when the team was clearly Curry's to lead after his injury we get a clearer comparison with Magic showing more consistency but Curry having a higher level. Efficiency? Magic is efficient but not to the degree Curry is and Curry is more efficient on far higher volume. If Magic is a better defender there isn't much evidence I'm aware of other than supposition. Magic's superior value in the finals is based on what? The opinions of a small group of writers who sold out? Not scoring. Not leading a team of first-timers who didn't show the ability before he came along.
    Curry’s value doesn’t get properly represented through box scores and many other statistics.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneyROY7 View Post
    OP, you don't seem to be very pragmatic when it comes to Stephen Curry. You seem to be far too emotionally invested.

    It really hurts your credibility when it comes to discussing his basketball exploits.
    Picking Harden over Curry despite the consistent one-sided history between them increases credibility I'm sure.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    I’ve only watched some of Magic’s games. I have trouble with him as a point guard because he lacks quickness & looks pretty basic when it comes to dribbling. Curry kills him offensively but is weak on D. Magic would give you bid edges in rebounding I’d figure. I think I’d go with Curry but I’m not 100% on it.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephonit View Post
    Picking Harden over Curry despite the consistent one-sided history between them increases credibility I'm sure.
    Are you upset and visibly shaken that some people don't view Curry in the same holy light that you seem to?

    Because that appears to be the case.

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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneyROY7 View Post
    Are you upset and visibly shaken that some people don't view Curry in the same holy light that you seems to?

    Because that appears to be the case.
    I am very aware that some people view Magic under a luminous halo. I am just knocking some sense into them.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmedarock View Post
    I’ve only watched some of Magic’s games. I have trouble with him as a point guard because he lacks quickness & looks pretty basic when it comes to dribbling.
    You can't expect a big 6'9, 220 lbs guy to be as quick as smaller, lighter PGs when it comes to acceleration, boyo.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneyROY7 View Post
    Are you upset and visibly shaken that some people don't view Curry in the same holy light that you seem to?

    Because that appears to be the case.
    He is. The fact that no one besides him thinks Curry has ever had an iconic moment in the playoffs led him to have a 50 page meltdown

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephonit View Post
    I am very aware that some people view Magic under a luminous halo. I am just knocking some sense into them.
    Are you really aware? Because I'm aware that in my near decade of posting on this forum, I can count on my hand the number of Magic Johnson threads created. Magic is a certified legend, but no one on ISH is too interested in discussing him.

    You, on the other hand, seem very adamant in creating a narrative for Stephen Curry that most others just don't see as rooted in reality.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneyROY7 View Post
    Are you really aware? Because I'm aware that in my near decade of posting on this forum, I can count on my hand the number of Magic Johnson threads created. Magic is a certified legend, but no one on ISH is too interested in discussing him.

    You, on the other hand, seem very adamant in creating a narrative for Stephen Curry that most others just don't see as rooted in reality.
    Curry's achievements are rooted in reality. It's the narratives that are floating around that aren't. I'm simply recording the reactions so that people in the future can be shocked and appalled at all the horrible takes they made.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephonit View Post
    Curry's achievements are rooted in reality. It's the narratives that are floating around that aren't. I'm simply recording the reactions so that people in the future can be shocked and appalled at all the horrible takes they made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephonit View Post
    They could be asking more plausible questions like if Curry could overtake Jordan
    I hate to be the one to break such heart-wrenching news, but that kind of take isn't rooted in reality.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneyROY7 View Post
    I hate to be the one to break such heart-wrenching news, but that kind of take isn't rooted in reality.
    Can't wait for his reaction when Curry makes the playoffs again and loses in the first or second round. Imagine how unhinged he'll get if Curry loses to Houston

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by theman93 View Post
    Magic and it's not close tbh

    Magic: 20/7/11 - 61% TS
    Curry: 24/5/7 - 62.4% TS

    PER:
    Magic - 24.1
    Curry - 23.8

    WS/48:
    Magic - .225
    Curry - .207

    BPM:
    Magic - 7.5
    Curry - 6.4

    All-Star Teams:
    Magic - 12 in 13 years
    Curry - 6 in 11 years

    All-NBA Teams:
    Magic - 10 in 13 years
    Curry - 6 in 11 years

    MVP's:
    Magic - 3 in 13 years
    Curry - 2 in 11 years

    FMVP's:
    Magic - 3 in 7 championship appearances
    Curry - 0 in 4 championship appearances

    Finals W/L
    Magic - 5-2
    Curry - 3-1
    Um = Magic played in 9 Finals and the Lakers won 5 and lost 4. For the 51 games played LA won 24 and lost 27. Besides the 84 Finals and playing poorly in the clutch, Magic was not good in the 83 Finals loss to that great Sixer team. Magic in the 83 Finals shot 40.3 % and had 24 turnovers in the 4 game sweep. The 3 point shot was new for the 79-80 season, but Magic for the first 6 years in the NBA shot 29 for 164 shots for a 17.68%. Magic as a rookie was so poor on defense that he required special coaching as the zone he played at MSU did not prepare him for the pro game. Other point guards were scoring 35 and 40 points on Magic. This is covered in his book "My Life" pages 100-101. And when Detroit faced LA in the Finals, Detroit made a point of attacking Magic as he was LA's weakest defender. Magic's last MVP award in 1990 really should have been awarded to Barkley. Barkley had a higher points per game, rebounds per game, steals per game, blocks per game, field goal %, EFG%, win share, PER, VORP, and had fewer turnovers per game. Magic was not the go to player for the last shot for his team for the first 7 seasons of his career. From his book "Touch" pages 74-76 talking about the options being Kareem, then Jamaal Wilkes, then Norm Nixon. " I just got crumbs, but that was cool; that's all I wanted." My point is this is a very valid argument. I have seen Magic ranked as high as #3 all time ahead of Kareem and I think that ranking is way too high. Curry has changed the game and depending on how he finished his career, he should surpass Magic - IMO.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneyROY7 View Post
    I hate to be the one to break such heart-wrenching news, but that kind of take isn't rooted in reality.
    Hey, don't spoil the little fella's trip.

    That's the only thing that's keeping him alive in this board.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephonit View Post
    Magic once led a team that was stacked with veteran players to a 65-win season in a weak conference. Curry led a team of conference finals first-timers to a 67-win season and then followed that up with two more 67+ win seasons. I don't really see Magic contributing to more winning. Win shares? Curry creates many plays due to his gravity for which he gets no credit in the assists column upon which win shares relies. Curry wasn't given the reins to the team early on either unlike Magic so his numbers started low but when the team was clearly Curry's to lead after his injury we get a clearer comparison with Magic showing more consistency but Curry having a higher level. Efficiency? Magic is efficient but not to the degree Curry is and Curry is more efficient on far higher volume. If Magic is a better defender there isn't much evidence I'm aware of other than supposition. Magic's superior value in the finals is based on what? The opinions of a small group of writers who sold out? Not scoring. Not leading a team of first-timers who didn't show the ability before he came along. Magic gets a boost from accolades from being on the high profile Lakers while Curry was ignored as an all-star selection on the Warriors despite producing MVP Nash numbers. Unreliable and inferior indicator.
    Magic is easily the better defender.

    DRtg:
    Magic - 104
    Curry - 107

    DWS
    Magic - 45.2 in 906 games
    Curry - 26.7 in 699 games

    DBPM
    Magic - 1.6
    Curry - 0.4

    STL/G
    Magic - 1.9
    Curry - 1.7

    BLK/G
    Magic - 0.4
    Curry - 0.2

    STL Champs
    Magic - 2
    Curry - 1

    Magic's height also makes him the more versatile defender. So that's half the game that Magic is already better than Curry at.

    Now let's address the offensive side of the ball. Curry is the better scorer and spacer whereas Magic is the better passer and facilitator. But how do we tell which style is more effective? PER, OBMP, ORtg, and OWS are good metrics, so lets take a look.

    PER:
    Magic - 24.1
    Curry - 23.8

    OBPM:
    Magic - 5.9
    Curry - 6.0

    ORtg:
    Magic - 121
    Curry - 118

    OWS:
    Magic - 110.6 in 906 games
    Curry - 76.5 in in 699 games

    So as we can see, Magic's offensive style is more effective. But who was better at their strength? As we know Curry's strength is scoring, and Magic's strength is assisting.

    Curry as Scoring Champ: 1x
    Magic as Assist Champ: 4x

    Magic's superior value in the Finals is obvious since Curry has never won Finals MVP. Your selling out argument is subjective, and therefor fallacious. The facts are that Magic has 3 FMVP's to Curry's 0.

    Magic is just better.

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