1994 Pippen should have been mvp

[Vino24]

People don't really hold Pippen's lack of an MVP against him (or the voters) because he played alongside a guy who pretty much monopolized the voters' attention every year.

That year, Pippen was the second player ever (Dave Cowens) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. He led the bulls to 55 wins (two fewer than with MJ)

[Roundball_Rock]

His impact was immense. They were 4-6 (33 win pace) without him--and that was with them facing a soft schedule during that time. They went 51-21 with him (58 win pace). Their net offensive rating was +2.2 with him (8th); -2.6 without him (21st).

Missing those 10 games hurt him, directly and indirectly. Missing games reduces your value and hence directly loses you MVP votes and indirectly because it cost the Bulls the #1 seed. If the Bulls won the #1 seed without MJ it would be hard to deny Pippen the MVP.

[aceman]

People don't really hold Pippen's lack of an MVP against him (or the voters) because he played alongside a guy who pretty much monopolized the voters' attention every year.

That year, Pippen was the second player ever (Dave Cowens) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. He led the bulls to 55 wins (two fewer than with MJ)

That was 1995. I think Scottie was one of best players of 1990s but was behind Robinson & Hakeem in 1994

[aceman]

His impact was immense. They were 4-6 (33 win pace) without him--and that was with them facing a soft schedule during that time. They went 51-21 with him (58 win pace). Their net offensive rating was +2.2 with him (8th); -2.6 without him (21st).

Missing those 10 games hurt him, directly and indirectly. Missing games reduces your value and hence directly loses you MVP votes and indirectly because it cost the Bulls the #1 seed. If the Bulls won the #1 seed without MJ it would be hard to deny Pippen the MVP.

8 of 10 games Pippen missed were away.
Trio of Horace, BJ & Kukoc may have been enough to reach playoffs that year.
As you've mention with all players fit team on pace for over 60 wins.

[Roundball_Rock]

8 of 10 games Pippen missed were away.
Trio of Horace, BJ & Kukoc may have been enough to reach playoffs that year.
As you've mention with all players fit team on pace for over 60 wins.

Yeah the annual circus trip, but look at how bad those teams were (win total listed) and how terrible the Bulls were:

Hawks 57 (W)
Bucks 20 (W)
Celtics 32 (L)
Sonics 63 (L)
Blazers 47 (L)
Lakers 33 (W)
Kings 28 (L)
Rockets 58 (L)
Spurs 56 (L)
Mavs 13 (W)

So their wins came against 57, 20, 33, 13 win teams. So three terrible teams. Their losses came against 32, 63, 47, 28, 58 win teams. Their losses were more respectable.

Their point differential? 87 PPG versus 96 PPG. For perspective, the worst team in the league (Dallas) had a -9 differential, same as the Bulls without Pippen.

The problem with Grant, BJ, Kukoc is solid defense but zero scoring. They averaged 87 PPG. For perspective, the lowest scoring team that year averaged 95 PPG (Dallas). Grant was a good player but he was limited offensively, scoring a lot on dunks and putbacks. Kukoc was a rookie who averaged 9/4/3 after the all-star break (12/4/4 before). He wasn't ready. The Bulls got production out of Kukoc in these 10 games, production they wouldn't have over a full season after he hit a rookie wall.

That would mean BJ Armstrong would have to be the #1 option.

[light]

People don't really hold Pippen's lack of an MVP against him (or the voters) because he played alongside a guy who pretty much monopolized the voters' attention every year.

That year, Pippen was the second player ever (Dave Cowens) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. He led the bulls to 55 wins (two fewer than with MJ)

Pippen was probably the favorite for MVP at the all-star break in 1994, but the Bulls went on a losing streak right after that where they lost 8 of 11 games and that essentially knocked him out of the top spot.

Those losses cost him - Pippen certainly would have been the MVP if Chicago won 58 games instead of 55.

Hakeem would've been a close second as the Rockets also won 58 games, the difference though would've been Chicago as #1 seed in the East whereas the Rockets were 2nd in the West and 5 games behind Seattle.

So it was just a matter of a few games that kept Pippen from that trophy. Had Pippen played his entire career without Jordan I think he would've won that award eventually because of his spectacular all-around game.

[ELITEpower23]

His impact was immense. They were 4-6 (33 win pace) without him--and that was with them facing a soft schedule during that time. They went 51-21 with him (58 win pace). Their net offensive rating was +2.2 with him (8th); -2.6 without him (21st).

Missing those 10 games hurt him, directly and indirectly. Missing games reduces your value and hence directly loses you MVP votes and indirectly because it cost the Bulls the #1 seed. If the Bulls won the #1 seed without MJ it would be hard to deny Pippen the MVP.

Big facts

[goozeman]

Played 6th easiest schedule, didn't even win division behind Hawks, finished bottom half in the league in team offense, only eighth in league in scoring but not top 50 in true shooting (terrible inefficiency), shot 66 percent from the line and wasn't even top 50 in Ftr (ungodly bad), got locked down and knocked out of the playoffs by Knicks in second round... Player of the decade and MVP ladies and gentleman. Also, he didn't lead team in rebounds so don't know what is up with that.

[BigShotBob]

Played 6th easiest schedule, didn't even win division behind Hawks, finished bottom half in the league in team offense, only eighth in league in scoring but not top 50 in true shooting (terrible inefficiency), shot 66 percent from the line and wasn't even top 50 in Ftr (ungodly bad), got locked down and knocked out of the playoffs by Knicks in second round... Player of the decade and MVP ladies and gentleman. Also, he didn't lead team in rebounds so don't know what is up with that.

Ether.

Not in my top 10 for the 90's.

[Roundball_Rock]

Pippen was probably the favorite for MVP at the all-star break in 1994, but the Bulls went on a losing streak right after that where they lost 8 of 11 games and that essentially knocked him out of the top spot.

True but they rallied. Horace Grant did his "blue flu" shenanigans in the second half of the season (48 win pace without him), Kukoc hit a rookie wall and those things hurt them but they had the heart of champions and rallied.

The Bulls' low point was 37-21 but they went 19-7 afterwards. Going into the final weekend of the season the standings looked like this:

1) ATL 56-25
2) CHI 55-25
3) NY 54-25
4) ORL 49-31
5) CLE/IND 45-35

So the Bulls were right there but in the 81st game they suffered a double OT loss against the lowly Celtics, probably because they were looking ahead to game 82 against New York. That loss eliminated them from contention for the #1 seed.

The Knicks had the tiebreaker against the Bulls so the 82nd game wound up meaningless for both teams (ATL had locked up the #1 seed with the tiebreaker over NY), but history will record the Knicks won 57 games and the Bulls 55 wins. I guess in retrospect it would have looked better if they both won 56 even with the tiebreaker going to NY.

The other thing to note is Pippen played hurt the first two games and the Bulls went 1-1. He had surgery, missed 10 games to recover. So from Pippen's return through game 81 the Bulls went 50-19 (59 win pace).

If Pippen played 80 games like Hakeem, Robinson none of this stuff would matter. The Bulls would have won the #1 seed with MJ playing baseball.

So it was just a matter of a few games that kept Pippen from that trophy. Had Pippen played his entire career without Jordan I think he would've won that award eventually because of his spectacular all-around game.

Agree that he likely would have. Some people will scoff at that but Harden, Rose, Nash, Iverson, etc. are all lesser players who won MVP at some point.

[BigShotBob]

True but they rallied. Horace Grant did his "blue flu" shenanigans in the second half of the season (48 win pace without him), Kukoc hit a rookie wall and those things hurt them but they had the heart of champions and rallied.

The Bulls' low point was 37-21 but they went 19-7 afterwards. Going into the final weekend of the season the standings looked like this:

1) ATL 56-25
2) CHI 55-25
3) NY 54-25
4) ORL 49-31
5) CLE/IND 45-35

So the Bulls were right there but in the 81st game they suffered a double OT loss against the lowly Celtics, probably because they were looking ahead to game 82 against New York. That loss eliminated them from contention for the #1 seed.

The Knicks had the tiebreaker against the Bulls so the 82nd game wound up meaningless, but history will record the Knicks won 57 games and the Bulls 55 wins. I guess in retrospect it would have looked better if they both won 56 even with the tiebreaker going to NY.

The other thing to note is Pippen played hurt the first two games and the Bulls went 1-1. He had surgery, missed 10 games to recover. So from Pippen's return through game 81 the Bulls went 50-19 (59 win pace).

If Pippen played 80 games like Hakeem, Robinson none of this stuff would matter. The Bulls would have won the #1 seed with MJ playing baseball.



Agree that he likely would have. Some people will scoff at that but Harden, Rose, Nash, Iverson, etc. are all lesser players who won MVP at some point.

Pippen can never win MVP because he's not a dynamic enough of a scorer and he's not efficient enough. Too many players did like what he did and then some.

He didn't even score over 25 points in the second round. Not even once, and he was extremely inefficient. So this proved that he just couldn't handle being the man and leading a team, especially after the meltdown temper tantrum sit down.

[aceman]

Yeah the annual circus trip, but look at how bad those teams were (win total listed) and how terrible the Bulls were:

Hawks 57 (W)
Bucks 20 (W)
Celtics 32 (L)
Sonics 63 (L)
Blazers 47 (L)
Lakers 33 (W)
Kings 28 (L)
Rockets 58 (L)
Spurs 56 (L)
Mavs 13 (W)

So their wins came against 57, 20, 33, 13 win teams. So three terrible teams. Their losses came against 32, 63, 47, 28, 58 win teams. Their losses were more respectable.

Their point differential? 87 PPG versus 96 PPG. For perspective, the worst team in the league (Dallas) had a -9 differential, same as the Bulls without Pippen.

The problem with Grant, BJ, Kukoc is solid defense but zero scoring. They averaged 87 PPG. For perspective, the lowest scoring team that year averaged 95 PPG (Dallas). Grant was a good player but he was limited offensively, scoring a lot on dunks and putbacks. Kukoc was a rookie who averaged 9/4/3 after the all-star break (12/4/4 before). He wasn't ready. The Bulls got production out of Kukoc in these 10 games, production they wouldn't have over a full season after he hit a rookie wall.

That would mean BJ Armstrong would have to be the #1 option.

Good post. Playoff berth just over 0.5 so they were not without hope but rookie kukoc may have dropped off.
Kukoc would be no.1 option rookie or not. Would've played post in triangle & isolated at top for big shot.

[Round Mound]

For me 93-94 Pippen was no surprise. I knew how good Pippen was when Jordan was playing with him. He turned out to be great from 1990 onwards. He deserved the MVP that season in the same why Hakeem deserved in 92-93 and Barkley in 89-90. Relative to teamates Pippen was the most impfactfull player that 93-94 season. He was a top 10 player for all the 90's.

[Roundball_Rock]

Good post. Playoff berth just over 0.5 so they were not without hope but rookie kukoc may have dropped off.
Kukoc would be no.1 option rookie or not. Would've played post in triangle & isolated at top for big shot.

They would need 42 wins without Pippen to get there. I suppose doable--but would be tough. Without Grant they fell off a lot so imagine the drop-off without Pippen. The caveat is the had the SRS of a 52 win team (42-23 pre-MJ but their record was 34-31) so maybe minus Pippen they could scrape together 40-43 wins. The difference between the two years is the Bulls' offense was better in 95' with Kukoc playing as a solid #2 option, Pippen becoming even more efficient, and still having BJ. Their problem was rebounding minus Grant/Rodman. Kukoc was a much better #2 option than Grant. If they signed anyone better than Larry Krystkowiak (yes, I am not kidding) to replace Grant they would have been fine for 95'. Rebounding, plus the scoring/creation combo skills of Pippen, Kukoc along with the shooting of Armstrong, Kerr and the #2 defense would have been a contender.

For me 93-94 Pippen was no surprise. I knew how good Pippen was when Jordan was playing with him. He turned out to be great from 1990 onwards. He deserved the MVP that season in the same why Hakeem deserved in 92-93 and Barkley in 89-90. Relative to teamates Pippen was the most impfactfull player that 93-94 season. He was a top 10 player for all the 90's

[Duncan21formvp]

They would need 42 wins without Pippen to get there. I suppose doable--but would be tough. Without Grant they fell off a lot so imagine the drop-off without Pippen. The caveat is the had the SRS of a 52 win team (42-23 pre-MJ but their record was 34-31) so maybe minus Pippen they could scrape together 40-43 wins. The difference between the two years is the Bulls' offense was better in 95' with Kukoc playing as a solid #2 option, Pippen becoming even more efficient, and still having BJ. Their problem was rebounding minus Grant/Rodman. Kukoc was a much better #2 option than Grant. If they signed anyone better than Larry Krystkowiak (yes, I am not kidding) to replace Grant they would have been fine for 95'. Rebounding, plus the scoring/creation combo skills of Pippen, Kukoc along with the shooting of Armstrong, Kerr and the #2 defense would have been a contender.

Kobe nor Shaq have more than 1 mvp nor Hakeem. Pippen wasn't as good as either of them.