Pippen vs 88-90 Pistons: 12 on 42%... name a better reason for bulls losses those yrs

[Shooter]

This

Biggest dissapearence act in NBA history

There's a reason he retired 3 times and never made 4 straight Finals (GOAT mental toughness like Russell, LBJ, Kareem). Dude was a mental midget.

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan got 21 PPG from Woolridge against the Bucks and the Celtics in 85' and 86' and 20/15 from Oakley against the Celtics in 87'. What were the results?

[Shooter]

damn, pippen sucked balls huh...

imagine if MJ had reggie's 21 ppg on 142 ORTG that he put up in his first playoffs. That's an easy ring.

why was pippen so bad at scoring?

Orlando Woolridge
Charles Oakley

Google

[Roundball_Rock]

Orlando Woolridge
Charles Oakley

Google

Inconvenient truths (don't forget their 16 PPG third option Daintley)--they complain about scoring but have no answer to why the Bulls got crushed when they got precisely that type of scoring in playoff series. The Bulls' offense was consistently at 0-1 in real offensive rating in the MJ years until 1990. I wonder what suddenly changed?

That guy thinks Reggie was a 21 PPG scorer in 88' (10 PPG) and 89' (16 PPG). Miller was 21 PPG from 1990-2000. 20.8 PPG great; 20.0 PPG is trash per MJ stans.

[3ball]

Jordan got 21 PPG from Woolridge against the Bucks and the Celtics in 85' and 86' and 20/15 from Oakley against the Celtics in 87'. What were the results?

the bucks were a powerhouse with far more talent than the bulls

it's not remotely close... the 85-89' bulls were young/rookie teams with zero all-stars or all-defenders, in a conference that required an all-time great team to win it

compare to lebron's 05-10' Cavs, who were a veteran-laden team with several all-stars/all-defenders (Mo, Zydrunas, Jamison... Hughes/Varejao were all-defense), in a conference that weak teams routinely won

no comparison... lol

lebron's superior cast and weaker conference explains why he won more games with weaker stats than Jordan... i.e. lebron won 66 games with 28/8/7, while Jordan won 47 with 33/8/8, or 42 with 37/5/5, or 50 with 35/6/6/dpoy .. again, no comparison.. all facts... carry on

[Roundball_Rock]

Bulls' Real Offensive Rating (1985-1990)

1985: +0.8
1986: +1.4 (MJ misses 65 games)
1987: +0.3 (MJ becomes MVP candidate)
1988: +1.0
1989: +1.3
1990: +4.2 (triangle installed, Pippen becomes an all-star)

Bulls' Offensive Ranks (1985-1990)

1985: 11th
1986: 8th (MJ misses 65 games)
1987: 12th (MJ becomes MVP candidate)
1988: 9th
1989: 12th
1990: 5th (triangle installed, Pippen becomes an all-star)

For reference, there were 23 teams from 1985-1988 and 25 teams in 1989 and 1990. So 11th/12th is mid-pack in 85', 87' as is 12th in 89'.

[Shooter]

the bucks were a powerhouse with far more talent than the bulls

it's not remotely close... the 85-89' bulls were rookie/young player teams with zero all-stars or all-defenders, in a conference that required an all-time great team to win it

compare to lebron's 05-10' Cavs, who were a veteran-laden team with several all-stars/all-defenders (Mo, Zydrunas, Jamison... Hughes/Varejao were all-defense), in a conference that weak teams routinely won

no comparison... lol

lebron's superior cast and weaker conference explains why he won more games with weaker stats than Jordan... i.e. lebron won 66 games with 28/8/7, while Jordan won 47 with 33/8/8, or 42 with 37/5/5, or 50 with 35/6/6/dpoy .. again, me comparison.. all facts... carry on

Powerhouse? What was the name of the guy that outscored MJ again? Dont make me Google it Cummings?

[tpols]

Wait a second... MJ is supposed to beat a Larry Bird peak GOAT Celtics dynasty teams with orlando woolridge and charles oakley?



you clowns are too much.

[3ball]

Powerhouse? What was the name of the guy that outscored MJ again? Dont make me Google it Cummings?

you're an ignoramus about that time period and obviously those bucks teams - everything I said was common knowledge and you couldn't address any of it

the bucks were a powerhouse with far more talent than the bulls

it's not remotely close... the 85-89' bulls were young/rookie teams with zero all-stars or all-defenders, in a conference that required an all-time great team to win it

compare to lebron's 05-10' Cavs, who were a veteran-laden team with the COY and several all-stars/all-defenders (Mo, Zydrunas, Jamison... Hughes/Varejao were all-defense), in a conference that weak teams routinely won

no comparison... lol

lebron's superior cast and weaker conference explains why he won more games with weaker stats than Jordan... i.e. lebron won 66 games with 28/8/7, while Jordan won 47 with 33/8/8, or 42 with 37/5/5, or 50 with 35/6/6/dpoy .. again, no comparison.. all facts... carry on

[Roundball_Rock]

So on the one hand MJ needed 20+ PPG; on the other he got it three years in a row and...it doesn't count because the other team was good. As if the Pistons weren't great themselves.

The common denominator: when the Bulls win MJ gets all the credit; when they lose there is zero responsibility on MJ's part. It is the fault of those he condescendingly called "my supporting cast."

[3ball]

when the Bulls win MJ gets all the credit; when they lose there is zero responsibility on MJ's part.

exactly, because mj never had a bad series, only pippen or his cast did

look it up

everytime the bulls lost, pippen played like trash, aka 88-90 Playoffs and 95' ECSF

And anytime a series was close, it was pippen's poor play that caused it... the 92' ECSF went 7 games because Pippen wet the bed and was outplayed/demoralized by X-man.... that was PIPPEN, not MJ.... Ditto the 98' ECF, 96' Finals, 98' Finals and virtually any close series the bulls ever played

mj never had a bad series that caused a series loss like lebron in the 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, or 11' Finals... and other series were close because lebron sucked (14' ECF, among others)

[tpols]

exactly, because mj never had a bad series, only pippen or his cast did

look it up

everytime the bulls lost, pippen played like trash, aka 88-90 Playoffs and 95' ECSF

And anytime a series was close, it was pippen's poor play that caused it... the 92' ECSF went 7 games because Pippen wet the bed and was outplayed/demoralized by X-man.... that was PIPPEN, not MJ.... Ditto the 98' ECF, 96' Finals, 98' Finals and virtually any close series the bulls ever played

mj never had a bad series that caused a series loss like lebron in the 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, or 11' Finals

What would you say MJ's worst series was before he won a ring?

And were any of them ever as bad as this?


'07 vs the spurs - 22 ppg on 83 ORTG (yikes)
'08 vs the celtics - 27 ppg on 96 ORTG
'11 vs the mavericks - 18 ppg on 102 ORTG

[KobesFinger]

he only made 6 because he won organically

he had a team of rookies in 88' and 89' with zero accolades, while 07-10' Lebron had a team of vets with numerous all-star and all-defense players (Mo, Zydrunas, Jamison... Hughes/Varejao all-defense).

again, mj had an accolade-less team of rookies that he built into champions

Jordan.... 1 all-star teammate = 6 rings
Kareem... 9 all-star teammate = 6 rings
Lebron.... 6 all-star teammate = 3 rings

So in one sentence Pippen is the reason for the Bulls losing, but in another he's just a rookie with no accolades?

[Roundball_Rock]

So in one sentence Pippen is the reason for the Bulls losing, but in another he's just a rookie with no accolades?

Also, the implication of saying Pippen is responsible for all losses means he also is responsible for winning.

[3ball]

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