switch lebron with mj throughout his career and he still has 6 rings.

[ImJosh]

For starters Jordan & Wade aren't exactly the greatest fit on planet earth, both shooting guards who can't shoot 3

They win in 2011 off sheer talent

2012 they lose to the Celtics, I don't see MJ having that epic game 6 that LeBron did

2013 the lose to the Spurs in the finals

They lose to them in 2014, that Spurs team was insane and MJ doesn't have the carrying ability to lift that Heat over
them

2015 no way he beats the Warriors without Kyrie & Love

2016 it literally took the greatest finals performance ever for LeBron to take down those Warriors

I don't see MJ being able to replicate this

[ImJosh]

him and wade go 4/4 in miami. No way mj's scoring 22 points a game and getting outplayed by dirk and jason terry in 11. No way kawhi gives the kind of trouble to a prime 30 year old mj that he gave to lebron. Kawhi isnt quick enough to stay in front of a prime mj.

He still gets the win in 16 against the warriors. Theyd have nobody to gaurd a 31 year old prime mj. Hed destroy klay or iggy. Neither was fast enough to stay in front of him in his prime. He also most likely wins in 15. Bron got 2 wins with sub 40% shooting. All iggy did was gift him the mid range which bron was hella uncomfortable taking. No way that works with mj. It be 50 point games every night with that strategy.

Im not sure about 17 or 18 although james frauden and old cp3 had warriors beat so theres a good chance mj wins one of those too. Either way 6 is most likely 7 is a possibility and 5 is a given.

lol the amount of delusion in this post

MJ is the greatest to ever play but no way on earth is he winning more than 3 rings in place of LeBron

[Bronbron23]

Jordan wins with post-prime Wade (we always hear how much Pippen sucked--Wade produced less as a 2nd option, even counting 2011, without the defense)? Jordan doesn't retire after 3 finals trips like he did not once but twice?

Jordan and Wade are redundant--both SG's with similar games. If you have both MJ and Wade you have two wings he can't shoot threes.



Possibly--but when did a MJ team win in a large upset? When the Bulls won they had the better or equal team.

Jordan is better with good teams and LeBron with bad or average teams so it isn't a "like for like" swap. If I had to guess, the Heat/Cavs win 2011-2013, lose the finals in 2014-2015 and 2017. 2016 is a wild card for me. Jordan is better but there is nothing in his record to suggest a MJ team could win in that type of upset.

I can see MJ with equal or greater rings than LeBron (3 or 4, depending on 16') if he doesn't keep retiring but 6 required special circumstances: the super team of his era with no competing great team while miraculously having zero major injuries to his team during those 6 runs. In the 2010's you had the Spurs, Warriors dynasties out there as well as second-tier teams like OKC. LeBron's teams also had key injuries to Bosh, Irving, and Love--all missing multiple playoff games.

Even if wade is worse than pip your still forgetting about bosh. He was a top 10 scorer before going to the heat as the third option. Mj has never had a third option as good as bosh.

And when did lebron beat the better team? Warriors had a better record but tbey werent better than the cavs. That vavs team was stacked plus tbey had the apparent goat so i dont understand how they were worse. I never understood this from bron stans. You give mj oneof the best gaurds and fowards in the league in his prime and im never saying hes an underdog.

[Bronbron23]

lol the amount of delusion in this post

MJ is the greatest to ever play but no way on earth is he winning more than 3 rings in place of LeBron

why? He could easily win 3 or 4 in miami with that team. He could easily win in 15 and 16. After that it be tougher but like i said houston had the kd warriors beat with harden qnd old cp3 so its not beyond the possibility that mj with a good team could do the same.

[ImJosh]

why? He could easily win 3 or 4 in miami with that team. He could easily win in 15 and 16. After that it be tougher but like i said houston had the kd warriors beat with harden qnd old cp3 so its not beyond the possibility that mj with a good team could do the same.

He's not easily winning anything. Wade & MJ wouldn't even work that well together in terms of fit in the first place

And MJ on the Cavs in place of LeBron would leave a massive gap in the teams playmaking. They would be essentially running with no real playmaker, and it took arguably the greatest finals performance ever just for LeBron to take down the Warriors

MJ doesn't have the all around skillset to fill LeBrons role on those Heat & Cavs teams.

It's not simply a case of MJ being the better player meaning that he's automatically going to have more success. You're not taking into account at all that those Miami/Cavs teams were tailored to accommodate LeBrons playstyle so they wouldn't be nearly as successful if you replaced him with MJ

[Bronbron23]

He's not easily winning anything. Wade & MJ wouldn't even work that well together in terms of fit in the first place

And MJ on the Cavs in place of LeBron would leave a massive gap in the teams playmaking. They would be essentially running with no real playmaker, and it took arguably the greatest finals performance ever just for LeBron to take down the Warriors

MJ doesn't have the all around skillset to fill LeBrons role on those Heat & Cavs teams.

It's not simply a case of MJ being the better player meaning that he's automatically going to have more success. You're not taking into account at all that those Miami/Cavs teams were tailored to accommodate LeBrons playstyle so they wouldn't be nearly as successful if you replaced him with MJ

well the only year mj played a similar role to lebron he scored 30/8/8 so id say he could fill 5he playmaking roll just fine. That be irrelevant though because mj was smart. He knew team play was the best path to success. There would be more on and off ball movement. He could get the same stats without monopolizing the ball. Love wouldn't be relegated to a spot up shooter. Warriors also had absolutely nobody to gaurd mj. Green, iggy and klay are all to slow. A prime mj would be a nightmare for those guys.

And mj, wade and bosh would fit jist fine. Wade was a good defender and better scorer than pip for a couple of those years and bosh would be the best third scoring option mj ever had.

[RRR3]

Imagine naming your account after LeBron and then making nothing but anti LeBron threads.

[Roundball_Rock]

Even if wade is worse than pip your still forgetting about bosh. He was a top 10 scorer before going to the heat as the third option. Mj has never had a third option as good as bosh.

Different eras. Klay could be the best player on a contender (see Miller, Reggie) in the 90's but today that would be impossible. As MJ stans noted in the 94' thread, Grant was a fine #2 player (BJ was the real #2 option scoring wise but Grant was better player) compared to other contenders' #2 so that logically makes him a great #3 option.

The issue with Bosh is you have to compare him to guys like Harden, Kawhi, Green, Klay, Love et al. as other #3 options on contenders. What, if any, is the extent of the relative advantage here? Bosh's numbers in Miami in the postseason were similar to Boozer's in Chicago at the same time.

And when did lebron beat the better team?

2007 ECF, 2016 Finals (57 wins versus 73--can't spin that), and 2018 to make the finals with a team that would have lost in the first round with KD or Kawhi in his place.

He could easily win in 15 and 16

With JR Smith and Mozgov as his #2 and #3 options in 15'?

well the only year mj played a similar role to lebron he scored 30/8/8 so id say he could fill 5he playmaking roll just fine

And they quickly pulled the plug on the "MJ as PG" thing after about 20 games.

He could get the same stats without monopolizing the ball. Love wouldn't be relegated to a spot up shooter.

Yeah, Love and Bosh would get more with MJ. The issue more so is MJ fitting with Wade and the opposition. The KD Warriors if healthy are never losing, no matter what Love does. By 2014 Wade, Bosh were greatly diminished from what they were in 2011. The Heat got crushed in the finals. Does Bosh scoring another 2-3 PPG change that? I doubt it.

How about the retirements? An obstacle to MJ winning 6, even under the most favorable accounting, is he retired each time after 3 consecutive finals. If he did that here, no chip in 14' and 18' via being retired.

[Nashty]

Poor man's Jordan Clarkson would win 6 rings with LeBron's teams?

[Bronbron23]

Different eras. Klay could be the best player on a contender (see Miller, Reggie) in the 90's but today that would be impossible. As MJ stans noted in the 94' thread, Grant was a fine #2 player (BJ was the real #2 option scoring wise but Grant was better player) compared to other contenders' #2 so that logically makes him a great #3 option.

The issue with Bosh is you have to compare him to guys like Harden, Kawhi, Green, Klay, Love et al. as other #3 options on contenders. What, if any, is the extent of the relative advantage here? Bosh's numbers in Miami in the postseason were similar to Boozer's in Chicago at the same time.



2007 ECF, 2016 Finals (57 wins versus 73--can't spin that), and 2018 to make the finals with a team that would have lost in the first round with KD or Kawhi in his place.



With JR Smith and Mozgov as his #2 and #3 options in 15'?



And they quickly pulled the plug on the "MJ as PG" thing after about 20 games.



Yeah, Love and Bosh would get more with MJ. The issue more so is MJ fitting with Wade and the opposition. The KD Warriors if healthy are never losing, no matter what Love does. By 2014 Wade, Bosh were greatly diminished from what they were in 2011. The Heat got crushed in the finals. Does Bosh scoring another 2-3 PPG change that? I doubt it.

How about the retirements? An obstacle to MJ winning 6, even under the most favorable accounting, is he retired each time after 3 consecutive finals. If he did that here, no chip in 14' and 18' via being retired.

so i disagree with the klay and miller comparison. The kdless warriors actually had a winning record witbout steph including a playoff run in 16 where they were cruising through the first 2 rounds. No they wouldn't win the chip but neither did reggie.

I agree with 07 bron beating a better team but i disagree with 16 and 18. Steph and klay are extremely reliant apon screens so they can be contained with good defense. Dray was never a real offensive threat in the first place. Bron and kyrie on the other hand are great iso scorers. Warriors didn't have anyone for them. The warriors were better in relation to the league but not as head to head against cle. It was a bad matchup.

I say 15 is possible for how they lost. As i said defensively the warriors are very gaurdable as cle showed that series. The issue was the offense. Without kyrie and love bron had to be a volume shooter which took him out of his comfort zone. Hes better at letting the game come to him and chosing his spots. Mj on the other hand can go either way and is an elite volume shooter. Hed have no problem taking and knoking down the mids that iggy was daring bron to take.

And yes they pulled the plug on that for a reason. Its not the best path for winning even though he still won some playoff games. It harder to win chips that way. Theres a reason why almost every championship team uses a team system vs a ball dominant one.

The retirements is a good point ill give u that

[Lebron23]

For starters Jordan & Wade aren't exactly the greatest fit on planet earth, both shooting guards who can't shoot 3

They win in 2011 off sheer talent

2012 they lose to the Celtics, I don't see MJ having that epic game 6 that LeBron did

2013 the lose to the Spurs in the finals

They lose to them in 2014, that Spurs team was insane and MJ doesn't have the carrying ability to lift that Heat over
them

2015 no way he beats the Warriors without Kyrie & Love

2016 it literally took the greatest finals performance ever for LeBron to take down those Warriors

I don't see MJ being able to replicate this

Solid posts Josh. And welcome to insidehoops. Jordan also never won an nba championshiop without Phil Jackson, and Pippen. Lebron have a huge chance to win his fourth title with his 3rd coach.

[Roundball_Rock]

Irrespective of specific comparisons, the overall point is rosters are more stacked now. The comparison isn't between Bosh and Charles Oakley, Vernon Maxwell, Dale Davis, or Dan Majerle but Bosh and Harden, Green, Klay, Kawhi, Capela, Siakam (19'), Jaylen Brown types as the #3 guys on other contenders today. Back then Klay could be a #1 and guys like Starks a #2 on contenders. No way either happens today.

The warriors were better in relation to the league but not as head to head against cle.

The Warriors won 5 of their first 6 meetings in 2016. It can be argued the match up was close because the Cavs ultimately won, but under that reasoning there can never be an upset because the match up has to be close for a team to win. So the 11' Mavs win over the Heat wouldn't qualify. In both cases, going into the series, the Heat and Warriors were big favorites.

Mj on the other hand can go either way and is an elite volume shooter.

How much more, though? LeBron was scoring 36, albeit on poor efficiency. The Warriors were an elite defensive team (#1 in 15'). We have seen MJ shoot around 40% against #1 defenses too. The Cavs lost pretty handily after going up 2-1.

The other issue is, while MJ is better equipped to score, MJ doesn't have the ability to elevate scrubs like LeBron does. So the series could go many ways, MJ putting up 42/7/6 and CLE winning--or CLE getting swept.

[StrongLurk]

Regardless of rings, Jordan is the best player ever. He is the GOAT.

[bullettooth]

Jordan showed his mental stamina was extremely weak. He was only able to play 7 consecutive seasons (87-93) without needing to quit in his prime to rest up.

So the idea of him winning 6 titles w/o needing a long break in between is just being delusional

Where the f.uck are LeBron's 6 rings?

[Axe]

Imagine naming your account after LeBron and then making nothing but anti LeBron threads.

Ish really is one crazy haven, after all..