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  1. #1
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Bird > Jokic

    MJ > Lebron

    Magic > Giannis

    Dr. J, Penny, Kemp > Kawhi

    Drexler, Hill > Harden

    Shaq, Duncan, Kareem >


    previous eras produced better players than today's format does

  2. #2
    SATAN is a prick Axe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy


  3. #3
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Davis isn't better than Kareem anymore?

  4. #4
    All washed up ThatCoolKid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Kawhi is MJ with a 3 point shot. MJ would have gotten his ass kicked by the nuggets.

  5. #5
    truth serum sdot_thadon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock View Post
    Davis isn't better than Kareem anymore?
    Most definitely, Davis is a goat candidate according to op.

  6. #6
    Local High School Star
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Acktually, the Spurs got worse when they swapped Kawhi for Derozan...

  7. #7
    Great college starter
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Kawhi had like 7 games to warm up for playoffs and was playing in the prison bubble. The only comparable scenario is Jordan in 1995 playoffs.

    Jordan vs magic in 1995: 21.6 GmSc on 54% TS

    Kawhi vs Nuggets in 2020: 20.8 GmSc on 55% TS

    Not much differences there. Shaq was never known for his defense either.

    You got shit twisted, this bubble isn't about who is the best. Its about who's the last survivor in the prison bubble. Kawhi's team couldn't handle the bubble, not Denver. Kawhi also gets home sick, that's why he picked LA over a proven champion. Kawhi might as well have been wearing #45 out there. Score 36 points in game 5 and his supporting cast/coach was too incompetent to close the series.

  8. #8
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by sdot_thadon View Post
    Most definitely, Davis is a goat candidate according to op.

    Teammate Career Rankings


    PER:

    Anthony Davis....3
    Dwayne Wade......21
    Kyrie Irving.....33
    Kevin Love.......45
    Chris Bosh.......62
    Scottie Pippen...132
    Horace Grant.....185

    OBPM:

    Anthony Davis....12
    Kyrie Irving.....13
    Dwayne Wade......25
    Kevin Love.......29
    Scottie Pippen...90
    Chris Bosh.......102
    Horace Grant.....107


    WS/48:


    Anthony Davis....13
    Horace Grant.....55
    Kevin Love.......57
    Kyrie Irving.....68
    Dwayne Wade......70
    Chris Bosh.......76
    Scottie Pippen...129

    Ortg:


    Horace Grant.....4
    Anthony Davis....28
    Kevin Love.......47
    Kyrie Irving.....89
    Chris Bosh.......107
    Dwayne Wade......231
    Scottie Pippen...NR top 250

    Effective Field Goal Percentage:


    Anthony Davis....86
    Kyrie Irving.....99
    Horace Grant.....206
    Kevin Love.......225
    Chris Bosh.......227
    Scottie Pippen...244
    Dwayne Wade......NR top 250

    True Shooting:


    Anthony Davis.....41
    Kyrie Irving......84
    Chris Bosh........89
    Kevin Love........92
    Dwayne Wade.......183
    Dennis Rodman.....244
    Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250
    Horace Grant......NR top 250

    BPM:

    Anthony Davis.....12
    Dwayne Wade.......22
    Kyrie Irving......32
    Scottie Pippen....35
    Kevin Love........48
    Chris Bosh........134
    Horace Grant......176


    Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Also, Scottie Pippen's BPM ranking is wildly incongruous because it rewards defensive stars playing on great defensive teams. From BREF about the BPM 2.0 changes:




    When basketball reference reworked BPM in 2016, players like John Stockton (another Pippen-like two-way player) saw their career BPM double. And here is the kicker... Even with that bonus bump gifted to him and playing on the best defensive teams of all-time practically his entire career, Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

    In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

    Lebron fans...


  9. #9
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by sdot_thadon View Post
    Most definitely, Davis is a goat candidate according to op.
    OP's all-time list?

    1) MJ
    2) Davis
    3) Kareem
    4) Wilt
    5) Wade
    6) Irving
    7) Ingram
    8) Ewing
    9) Magic
    10) Miller

  10. #10
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post


    Teammate Career Rankings


    PER:

    Anthony Davis....3
    Dwayne Wade......21
    Kyrie Irving.....33
    Kevin Love.......45
    Chris Bosh.......62
    Scottie Pippen...132
    Horace Grant.....185


    OBPM:

    Anthony Davis....12
    Kyrie Irving.....13
    Dwayne Wade......25
    Kevin Love.......29
    Scottie Pippen...90
    Chris Bosh.......102
    Horace Grant.....107



    WS/48:


    Anthony Davis....13
    Horace Grant.....55
    Kevin Love.......57
    Kyrie Irving.....68
    Dwayne Wade......70
    Chris Bosh.......76
    Scottie Pippen...129


    Ortg:


    Horace Grant.....4
    Anthony Davis....28
    Kevin Love.......47
    Kyrie Irving.....89
    Chris Bosh.......107
    Dwayne Wade......231
    Scottie Pippen...NR top 250


    Effective Field Goal Percentage:


    Anthony Davis....86
    Kyrie Irving.....99
    Horace Grant.....206
    Kevin Love.......225
    Chris Bosh.......227
    Scottie Pippen...244
    Dwayne Wade......NR top 250


    True Shooting:


    Anthony Davis.....41
    Kyrie Irving......84
    Chris Bosh........89
    Kevin Love........92
    Dwayne Wade.......183
    Dennis Rodman.....244
    Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250
    Horace Grant......NR top 250


    BPM:

    Anthony Davis.....12
    Dwayne Wade.......22
    Kyrie Irving......32
    Scottie Pippen....35
    Kevin Love........48
    Chris Bosh........134
    Horace Grant......176


    Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Also, Scottie Pippen's BPM ranking is wildly incongruous because it rewards defensive stars playing on great defensive teams. From BREF about the BPM 2.0 changes:




    When basketball reference reworked BPM in 2016, players like John Stockton (another Pippen-like two-way player) saw their career BPM double. And here is the kicker... Even with that bonus bump gifted to him and playing on the best defensive teams of all-time practically his entire career, Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

    In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

    Lebron fans...


    sdot?

    you still breathing?

    even pippen's best stat - the steals-heavy BPM - pippen would rank 4th among Lebron's teammates

    lol.. lebron is HANDED rings via his cheating, aka cast refresh every 4 years

  11. #11
    Presented by YouTubeTV SouBeachTalents's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Penny & Kemp > Kawhi Hilarious

  12. #12
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    Penny & Kemp > Kawhi Hilarious
    24 on 44% vs Murray

    Both Penny and Kemp did better vs Jordan

  13. #13
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    Penny & Kemp > Kawhi Hilarious
    The same Kemp who all-NBA voters thought Pippen was better in each year of their primes. Hell, half a season of Pippen was worth more to all-NBA voters than a full season of Kemp in 98'. So Pippen=Iggy but Pippen>Kemp when both were in their primes (1993-1998), yet Kemp>Kawhi?

  14. #14
    Presented by YouTubeTV SouBeachTalents's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    24 on 44% vs Murray

    Both Penny and Kemp did better vs Jordan
    How about 31 on 62%TS for an entire title run, when did Penny or Kemp ever do that? Or win multiple DPOY's?

  15. #15
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    How about 31 on 62%TS for an entire title run, when did Penny or Kemp ever do that? Or win multiple DPOY's?
    Penny and Kemp both did a lot worse as #1 options (not all 90's "sidekicks" could graduate to being a #1 option like Pippen did). Kawhi as a #1 option blows Penny and Kemp away. Kemp was a mess as a #1 in Cleveland. The Cavs didn't recover from the Kemp trade until they drafted LeBron to revive the franchise.

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