Kawhi averaged 24/8/6 on 44% vs Nugs.. MJ would destroy this guy

[3ball]

Bird > Jokic

MJ > Lebron

Magic > Giannis

Dr. J, Penny, Kemp > Kawhi

Drexler, Hill > Harden

Shaq, Duncan, Kareem >


previous eras produced better players than today's format does

[Axe]

[Roundball_Rock]

Davis isn't better than Kareem anymore?

[ThatCoolKid]

Kawhi is MJ with a 3 point shot. MJ would have gotten his ass kicked by the nuggets.

[sdot_thadon]

Davis isn't better than Kareem anymore?

Most definitely, Davis is a goat candidate according to op.

[MaxPlayer]

Acktually, the Spurs got worse when they swapped Kawhi for Derozan...

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi had like 7 games to warm up for playoffs and was playing in the prison bubble. The only comparable scenario is Jordan in 1995 playoffs.

Jordan vs magic in 1995: 21.6 GmSc on 54% TS

Kawhi vs Nuggets in 2020: 20.8 GmSc on 55% TS

Not much differences there. Shaq was never known for his defense either.

You got shit twisted, this bubble isn't about who is the best. Its about who's the last survivor in the prison bubble. Kawhi's team couldn't handle the bubble, not Denver. Kawhi also gets home sick, that's why he picked LA over a proven champion. Kawhi might as well have been wearing #45 out there. Score 36 points in game 5 and his supporting cast/coach was too incompetent to close the series.

[3ball]

Most definitely, Davis is a goat candidate according to op.

Teammate Career Rankings


PER:

Anthony Davis....3
Dwayne Wade......21
Kyrie Irving.....33
Kevin Love.......45
Chris Bosh.......62
Scottie Pippen...132
Horace Grant.....185

OBPM:

Anthony Davis....12
Kyrie Irving.....13
Dwayne Wade......25
Kevin Love.......29
Scottie Pippen...90
Chris Bosh.......102
Horace Grant.....107


WS/48:

Anthony Davis....13
Horace Grant.....55
Kevin Love.......57
Kyrie Irving.....68
Dwayne Wade......70
Chris Bosh.......76
Scottie Pippen...129

Ortg:

Horace Grant.....4
Anthony Davis....28
Kevin Love.......47
Kyrie Irving.....89
Chris Bosh.......107
Dwayne Wade......231
Scottie Pippen...NR top 250

Effective Field Goal Percentage:

Anthony Davis....86
Kyrie Irving.....99
Horace Grant.....206
Kevin Love.......225
Chris Bosh.......227
Scottie Pippen...244
Dwayne Wade......NR top 250

True Shooting:

Anthony Davis.....41
Kyrie Irving......84
Chris Bosh........89
Kevin Love........92
Dwayne Wade.......183
Dennis Rodman.....244
Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250
Horace Grant......NR top 250

BPM:

Anthony Davis.....12
Dwayne Wade.......22
Kyrie Irving......32
Scottie Pippen....35
Kevin Love........48
Chris Bosh........134
Horace Grant......176


Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Also, Scottie Pippen's BPM ranking is wildly incongruous because it rewards defensive stars playing on great defensive teams. From BREF about the BPM 2.0 changes:




When basketball reference reworked BPM in 2016, players like John Stockton (another Pippen-like two-way player) saw their career BPM double. And here is the kicker... Even with that bonus bump gifted to him and playing on the best defensive teams of all-time practically his entire career, Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

Lebron fans...

[Roundball_Rock]

Most definitely, Davis is a goat candidate according to op.

OP's all-time list?

1) MJ
2) Davis
3) Kareem
4) Wilt
5) Wade
6) Irving
7) Ingram
8) Ewing
9) Magic
10) Miller

[3ball]

Teammate Career Rankings


PER:

Anthony Davis....3
Dwayne Wade......21
Kyrie Irving.....33
Kevin Love.......45
Chris Bosh.......62
Scottie Pippen...132
Horace Grant.....185


OBPM:

Anthony Davis....12
Kyrie Irving.....13
Dwayne Wade......25
Kevin Love.......29
Scottie Pippen...90
Chris Bosh.......102
Horace Grant.....107



WS/48:

Anthony Davis....13
Horace Grant.....55
Kevin Love.......57
Kyrie Irving.....68
Dwayne Wade......70
Chris Bosh.......76
Scottie Pippen...129


Ortg:

Horace Grant.....4
Anthony Davis....28
Kevin Love.......47
Kyrie Irving.....89
Chris Bosh.......107
Dwayne Wade......231
Scottie Pippen...NR top 250


Effective Field Goal Percentage:

Anthony Davis....86
Kyrie Irving.....99
Horace Grant.....206
Kevin Love.......225
Chris Bosh.......227
Scottie Pippen...244
Dwayne Wade......NR top 250


True Shooting:

Anthony Davis.....41
Kyrie Irving......84
Chris Bosh........89
Kevin Love........92
Dwayne Wade.......183
Dennis Rodman.....244
Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250
Horace Grant......NR top 250


BPM:

Anthony Davis.....12
Dwayne Wade.......22
Kyrie Irving......32
Scottie Pippen....35
Kevin Love........48
Chris Bosh........134
Horace Grant......176


Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Also, Scottie Pippen's BPM ranking is wildly incongruous because it rewards defensive stars playing on great defensive teams. From BREF about the BPM 2.0 changes:




When basketball reference reworked BPM in 2016, players like John Stockton (another Pippen-like two-way player) saw their career BPM double. And here is the kicker... Even with that bonus bump gifted to him and playing on the best defensive teams of all-time practically his entire career, Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

Lebron fans...

sdot?

you still breathing?

even pippen's best stat - the steals-heavy BPM - pippen would rank 4th among Lebron's teammates

lol.. lebron is HANDED rings via his cheating, aka cast refresh every 4 years

[SouBeachTalents]

Penny & Kemp > Kawhi Hilarious

[3ball]

Penny & Kemp > Kawhi Hilarious

24 on 44% vs Murray

Both Penny and Kemp did better vs Jordan

[Roundball_Rock]

Penny & Kemp > Kawhi Hilarious

The same Kemp who all-NBA voters thought Pippen was better in each year of their primes. Hell, half a season of Pippen was worth more to all-NBA voters than a full season of Kemp in 98'. So Pippen=Iggy but Pippen>Kemp when both were in their primes (1993-1998), yet Kemp>Kawhi?

[SouBeachTalents]

24 on 44% vs Murray

Both Penny and Kemp did better vs Jordan

How about 31 on 62%TS for an entire title run, when did Penny or Kemp ever do that? Or win multiple DPOY's?

[Roundball_Rock]

How about 31 on 62%TS for an entire title run, when did Penny or Kemp ever do that? Or win multiple DPOY's?

Penny and Kemp both did a lot worse as #1 options (not all 90's "sidekicks" could graduate to being a #1 option like Pippen did). Kawhi as a #1 option blows Penny and Kemp away. Kemp was a mess as a #1 in Cleveland. The Cavs didn't recover from the Kemp trade until they drafted LeBron to revive the franchise.