What if players had to shoot all jumpers and couldn't shoot at rim? Stats say that..

[TheCorporation]

pippen peak capability - 22 ppg

everyone else - way more than 22

Scottie Pippen outscored the opponent's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals.

Why are you 2 ez to wreck?

[3ball]

Scottie Pippen outscored the opponent's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals.

Why are you 2 ez to wreck?

pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer or matched with better efficiency in 40% of his playoff series

otoh, guys like Kyrie and AD are virtually never outscored, even by the opponent's top scorer

you guys know nothing about basketball and only embarass yourselves against me

[TheCorporation]

pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer or matched with better efficiency in 40% of his playoff series

otoh, guys like Kyrie and AD are virtually never outscored, even by the opponent's top scorer

you guys know nothing about basketball and only embarass yourselves against me

You're geting weaker and weaker over the years. Be better.

[ralph_i_el]

MJ and Kobe's jumpshooting benefited from their strong driving games. Without driving, they're facing tougher defense on their J's.

Dirk would probably benefit the most. KD and Curry too.

[iamgine]

What if players had to eat 20 Big Macs before every game.

Charles Barkley might be the GOAT.

[1987_Lakers]

pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer or matched with better efficiency in 40% of his playoff series

otoh, guys like Kyrie and AD are virtually never outscored, even by the opponent's top scorer

Pippen is an all-time great defender and plays the facilitating role as well, that counts as basketball. We all saw Pippen lead the Bulls to 55 wins, make All-NBA First Team & Defensive team without MJ.

Kyrie has proven to be a low impact player once he left Cleveland, as evident how his team plays better without him in the lineup, he's obviously a very talented player, but nobody considers him to be on the same level as prime Pippen.

[TheCorporation]

Pippen is an all-time great defender and plays the facilitating role as well, that counts as basketball. We all saw Pippen lead the Bulls to 55 wins, make All-NBA First Team & Defensive team without MJ.

Kyrie has proven to be a low impact player once he left Cleveland, as evident how his team plays better without him in the lineup, he's obviously a very talented player, but nobody considers him to be on the same level as prime Pippen.

bingo

How dumb is this 1-9 ball guy to not know basketball BASICS

[3ball]

Pippen is an all-time great defender and plays the facilitating role as well, that counts as basketball. We all saw Pippen lead the Bulls to 55 wins, make All-NBA First Team & Defensive team without MJ.

Kyrie has proven to be a low impact player once he left Cleveland, as evident how his team plays better without him in the lineup, he's obviously a very talented player, but nobody considers him to be on the same level as prime Pippen.

AD is a better defender than Pippen, but if he scored 16 on 40% like Pippen always did, the Lakers would get blown away.. they would get destroyed even if AD was getting peak Pippen numbers

and everyone win 55 games... Lowry just did it.. it means zero.. literally everyone does it... dominique did it with zero help... KJ and Marc Gasol routinely did it.. again, it means literally nothing.. if lebron joined the lowry-raptors and went 6/6 with goat production rate, he would be the goat hands down.. that's what MJ did, except he built a lowry-cast and dynasty from SCRATCH.. so mj is like the uber-goat.. just saying "goat" doesn't do mj justice

[TheCorporation]

AD is a better defender than Pippen, but if he scored 16 on 40% like Pippen always did, the Lakers would get blown away.. they would get blownied even if AD was getting peak Pippen numbers

and everyone win 55 games... Lowry just did it.. it means zero.. literally everyone does it... dominique did it with zero help... KJ and Marc Gasol routinely did it.. again, it means literally nothing.. if lebron joined the lowry-raptors and went 6/6 with goat production rate, he would be the goat hands down.. that's what MJ did, except he built a lowry-cast and dynasty from SCRATCH.. so mj is like the uber-goat

Pip made MJ. You forgot 1-9 already?

[3ball]

Pip made MJ. You forgot 1-9 already?

^^^ same goes for Lebron's career before "the decision" to assemble the only team with 3 perennial all-stars, or acquire Tim Duncan (AD)

everyone needs help, but Pippen is less than every other multiple-champion got, except maybe hakeem's rockets, who where playing in a weaker league (imagine 2017 without the warriors, aka a free-for-all.. anyone can win)

[TheCorporation]

^^^ same goes for Lebron's career before "the decision" to assemble the only team with 3 perennial all-stars, or acquire Tim Duncan (AD)

everyone needs help, but Pippen is less than every other multiple-champion got, except maybe hakeem's rockets, who where playing in a weaker league (imagine 2017 without the warriors, aka a free-for-all.. anyone can win)

2013 playoff Wade scored fewer ppg than ANY Pippen playoff chip runs (all 6 years)

You're running out of excuses

[1987_Lakers]

AD is a better defender than Pippen, but if he scored 16 on 40% like Pippen always did, the Lakers would get blown away.. they would get destroyed even if AD was getting peak Pippen numbers

and everyone win 55 games... Lowry just did it.. it means zero.. literally everyone does it... dominique did it with zero help... KJ and Marc Gasol routinely did it.. again, it means literally nothing.. if lebron joined the lowry-raptors and went 6/6 with goat production rate, he would be the goat hands down.. that's what MJ did, except he built a lowry-cast and dynasty from SCRATCH.. so mj is like the uber-goat.. just saying "goat" doesn't do mj justice

Pippen from the '91-'98 postseason averaged 19/8/6/2 with All-NBA defense. He was especially good in the first 3 peat. In the 2nd 3 peat MJ didn't need much of Pippen's help because he was going up against a team who's 2nd leading scorer was Jeff Hornacek. LeBron was going up against all-time great teams in the Finals from 2014-2018, that is not disputed. LeBron even played better than 2nd 3 peat MJ in the postseason during that time as well.

'16-'18 PS LeBron: 31/9/8/2/1 on 54 fg%
'96-'98 PS MJ: 31/6/4/2 on 46 fg%

LeBron clearly outplayed MJ, only difference is LeBron was going up against a 73 win team in the Finals and a KD-Curry-Klay-Dray team the next 2 years. Let's be real, those Bulls teams wouldn't sniff a title if they went up against the KD Warriors, you know it and I know it.

[insidious301]

The problem is most, including these players, don't just shoot jumpers. This is the same thing as wanting to eliminate the 3-point line. Fantasy basketball is cool but in the real world, LeBron is still better than Kobe and right there with Jordan.

[1987_Lakers]

^^^ same goes for Lebron's career before "the decision" to assemble the only team with 3 perennial all-stars, or acquire Tim Duncan (AD)

everyone needs help, but Pippen is less than every other multiple-champion got, except maybe hakeem's rockets, who where playing in a weaker league (imagine 2017 without the warriors, aka a free-for-all.. anyone can win)

LeBron made the Finals at age 22 with zero help. MJ was a guaranteed 1st round exit without Pippen.

[Roundball_Rock]

87' Lakers next up to wreck 1-9ball. Doesn't he get tired of being the forum jizz rag?

Pippen is an all-time great defender and plays the facilitating role as well, that counts as basketball. We all saw Pippen lead the Bulls to 55 wins, make All-NBA First Team & Defensive team without MJ.

Kyrie has proven to be a low impact player once he left Cleveland, as evident how his team plays better without him in the lineup, he's obviously a very talented player, but nobody considers him to be on the same level as prime Pippen.

Cold, hard facts to anyone living in the real world.

Pippen from the '91-'98 postseason averaged 19/8/6/2 with All-NBA defense. He was especially good in the first 3 peat. In the 2nd 3 peat MJ didn't need much of Pippen's help because he was going up against a team who's 2nd leading scorer was Jeff Hornacek. LeBron was going up against all-time great teams in the Finals from 2014-2018, that is not disputed. LeBron even played better than 2nd 3 peat MJ in the postseason during that time as well.

'16-'18 PS LeBron: 31/9/8/2/1 on 54 fg%
'96-'98 PS MJ: 31/6/4/2 on 46 fg%

LeBron clearly outplayed MJ, only difference is LeBron was going up against a 73 win team in the Finals and a KD-Curry-Klay-Dray team the next 2 years. Let's be real, those Bulls teams wouldn't sniff a title if they went up against the KD Warriors, you know it and I know it.

Good points. I'll add scoring was down by the late 90's so everyone's scoring declined. Pippen in 97' averaged 20 PPG when he played full games (he had a 7 minute game in there) and was being called the Bulls' postseason MVP well into June by Sports Illustrated and Marv Albert. In 98' he wrecked the offenses of Utah (the #1 offense with the great Malone and Stockton that MJ stans rave about) and Indiana (with the great Miller MJ stans rave about).

Note that they never post what other stars scored in the same era? Because they keep getting exposed for hyping other stars as "great scorers" despite them in reality being in the 18-22 PPG range during the same era. MJ stans would like to deceive people into thinking everyone was scoring 30 PPG back then. Among perimeter players, it was just MJ and Nique' scoring a ton.

LeBron made the Finals at age 22 with zero help. MJ was a guaranteed 1st round exit without Pippen.

Which is what the insecurity is about. I almost wish MJ would come out of retirement and sign with the Lakers or something and have some team success without Pippen so MJ stans don't have to be forever insecure about Pippen.

LeBron: 7 conference finals, 5 (6?) NBA finals without Wade
Jordan: 10 playoff game appearances, 1 playoff win without Pippen

That is what it boils down with insecure MJ stans. Their hero literally quit as reigning MVP rather than play without Pippen and Jackson. LeBron in that situation would either make it work in Chicago or go to another team and get to the finals there.