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  1. #31
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Kobrick View Post
    i respect brans collusion. he went to a 33 win Cavs team and a 35 win lakers team, both teams with unpromised young guys, no coaching and long winning drought. it's not brans fault other players are motivated to join him, after all he makes the Finals quite often with practically anyone roster and coach he plays with.
    Ingram was a 25 ppg all-star and most improved

    so the historical record shows that many guys saw much lower stats alongside lebron, including Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Rose, IT, Hood, Crowder and many more

    and we're talking massive drop-off's here

    ultimately, lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand
    Last edited by 3ball; 10-01-2020 at 04:09 PM.

  2. #32
    Kobe Stan
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    Ingram was a 25 ppg all-star and most improved

    so the historical record shows that many guys saw much lower stats alongside lebron, including Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Rose, IT, Hood, Crowder and many more

    and we're talking massive drop-off's here

    ultimately, lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand
    None of this is true.

    Kawhi who is like a clone of 98 MJ REDUCED Paul George drastically (who you thought you flourish next to Kawhi and average 30ppg), meanwhile plenty of guys on the Raptors had career years with Kawhi leaving. To think that PG's best year was playing with WESTBROOK who is completely inferior to Lebron and is MORE BALL DOMINANT than Lebron.

    3ball, all you are is a Lebron hater...that's it. All the logic/reason/effort you put into posting doesn't matter because it's only through the viewpoint of a loser who only hates on Lebron...just pathetic man.

  3. #33
    National High School Star Stanley Kobrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    Ingram was a 25 ppg all-star and most improved

    so the historical record shows that many guys saw much lower stats alongside lebron, including Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Rose, IT, Hood, Crowder and many more

    and we're talking massive drop-off's here

    ultimately, lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand
    going from 18 ppg to 23 ppg is not uncommon when field goal attempts increase from 14 fga to 18 fga. Lakers Ingraham had 1.8 3pa per game, Pelicans ingraham had 6.2 3pa. as field goal attempts go up from #2 option to #1, naturally so do points. his efficiency stayed relatively the same. but most importantly the Pelicans record went down with his addition, the trade for ingraham lonzo and hart made Pelicans worse

  4. #34
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Kobrick View Post
    going from 18 ppg to 23 ppg is not uncommon when field goal attempts increase from 14 fga to 18 fga. Lakers Ingraham had 1.8 3pa per game, Pelicans ingraham had 6.2 3pa. as field goal attempts go up from #2 option to #1, naturally so do points. his efficiency stayed relatively the same. but most importantly the Pelicans record went down with his addition, the trade for ingraham lonzo and hart made Pelicans worse
    everyone has their ppg and apg decline alongside lebron, not just Ingram

    it's Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Crowder, Rose, Hood, IT

    otoh, the list of good players that excelled is short - Mo and Kyrie - only the elite shooters do well alongside lebron

    otoh, mj was skilled to play off-ball and provide an assist target to lesser skilled players, so everyone excelled alongside him, including weak shooters like Pippen or Hughes - ultimately, rookies like Grant, Pippen and BJ grew by leaps and bounds every year and into all-stars by 94'.. otoh, no one improves alongside lebron because he turns them into play-finisher, so he needs READY-MADE STARS (can't develop brand or young players)

  5. #35
    2nd Greatest Player Lebron23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    No Pip No chip

  6. #36
    BOS kings of the north red1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    lowry just won 55.. marc gasol won 55.. tons and tons and tons of guys won 55 - it's nothing, especially for a team with 3-peat know-how and system.

    but a great system by itself isn't enough to get past the 2nd round

    btw, mj carried 8 seeds that were 20-30 win teams, while lebron didn't have to play with bad teams in the playoffs (04', 05' or 19') - he only played with developed high seeds in the playoffs, and never actually had bad teams.. people forget that the conference was weak and 1-star teams were routinely winning it.

    remember, lebron missed the 05' playoffs despite having the East all-star center on his team.. he needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make it in 06' (top 5 defense), aka a DEVELOPED high seed in a 1-star conference
    blah blah blah.


    lebron = only finals MVP over 70-win team.


    pippen's bulls = 55-win 2nd round team.

  7. #37
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebron23 View Post
    No Pip No chip
    it's been proven that mj won in spite of pippen:

    pippen averaged 12 on 42% against the 88-90' Pistons so the bulls lost everytime... anyone OTHER than pippen would've won, so mj didn't need pippen..

    again, mj won in spite of pippen's 16/6/5 and shit efficiency.. mj is the goat so he wins with the most guys and Pippen is just one of many guys that mj would've won with, especially in the 2-star format of the 90's

    new fans be like, "so mj won 6 rings?.. okay well his sidekick must've been a boss, let's see his stats... hmmmm.. 16/5/5 with shit efficiency and Chris Mullin destroying him on the regular.."

  8. #38
    BOS kings of the north red1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebron23 View Post
    No Pip No chip
    basically.

  9. #39
    I usually hit open layups
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebron23 View Post
    No Pip No chip

  10. #40
    NBA Legend Kiddlovesnets's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurs m8 View Post
    It does matter though when you claim to be GOAT, collude multiple times, and still lag behind in every area.
    LeBron already lost the chance to be GOAT in 2007 when he was swept by spurs, since 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition for GOAT. So it doesn’t matter what he would do after 2007, his ceiling would be #2 however he tried. Collusion did move him into borderline top 5, so it helped his legacy.

  11. #41
    RENT FREE Spurs m8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddlovesnets View Post
    LeBron already lost the chance to be GOAT in 2007 when he was swept by spurs, since 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition for GOAT. So it doesn’t matter what he would do after 2007, his ceiling would be #2 however he tried. Collusion did move him into borderline top 5, so it helped his legacy.
    Disagree.

    100% success isn't the GOAT decider tbh

    But a 33% finals record, with multiple collusions is pretty pathetic. Especially given the bailouts too.

    But all of that aside....as a basketball player, he just isn't a better player...its that simple.

  12. #42
    Long Live The Process fourkicks44's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Why OP, why?

    It's time to give it up and enjoy the fact the Lakers have all but won another championship.

    You sound like a God damn ungrateful idiot.

    Smartin up, man. You gonna miss the greatest times.

    When it's gone, it's gone.

    Don't you want to tell your grandkids you witnesses greatness?

    It's time to lay down your sword

    It is time.

  13. #43
    RENT FREE Spurs m8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by fourkicks44 View Post
    Why OP, why?

    It's time to give it up and enjoy the fact the Lakers have all but won another championship.

    You sound like a God damn ungrateful idiot.

    Smartin up, man. You gonna miss the greatest times.

    When it's gone, it's gone.

    Don't you want to tell your grandkids you witnesses greatness?

    It's time to lay down your sword

    It is time.
    What greatness?lol

    Unfortunately, kids today don't know true greatness, which is why I get that they think they are witnessing it

  14. #44
    Long Live The Process fourkicks44's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurs m8 View Post
    What greatness?lol

    Unfortunately, kids today don't know true greatness, which is why I get that they think they are witnessing it
    Believe me man, nobody wants to see the Lakers win a ring less than me.

    But if anyone should lay down the sword it's you Brother.

    You gotta let that shit go.

  15. #45
    National High School Star Stanley Kobrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

    on RealGM ive noticed the user eliteballer has been having a similar mental collapse over Lakers success this year. same posts, same avy, different user name. everyone kept bullying and banning him there also, i'm guessing he's banned again right now btw, whatever happened to duncan21mvp and kawhileonard2? does anyone know, can anyone figure it out

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