Why is David Robinson's 1999 ring not counted as a superstar ring?

[Stanley Kobrick]

Tpols went crazy after lebron won his 4th finals mvp.

i agree with you Lebron23, the Tpols user has been mentally collapsing since Lakers recent championship. hopefully he finds peace next year in rooting for the Nets and Warriors again. Clippers didn't give him much solace

[tpols]

Interesting.

Should we take another look at the 2010 Lakers and evaluate Gasol as a superstar?

Pretty sure we'll find Gasol outpacing his teammate in ws/48, ortg, drtg, TS%, assist to turnover ratio, rebounds, dbpm, and game 7 play in the Finals.

Kobe had a higher VORP than Pau in 2008, 2009, and 2010.

Kobe had a better VORP than Shaq in 2001.

Oh man....

What?

[DMAVS41]

You've mentioned things other than VORP and you don't get to determine what is and isn't used.

On your own logic and arguments...Pau Gasol was a clear superstar in 09 and 10.

Is what it is.

[Phoenix]

Pau had a higher Ortg than Kobe in 2010 finals. Interesting stuff.

[rmt]

Who cares about bullshit voted on accolades when he factually dominated the playoffs?

I just found this.





They don't even let coaches vote on it anymore. It's straight media execs telling their writers to go one way or another. And even when the coaches did vote on it, I bet they just veiwed it as sidework. Like when you get a task at work you know you can slide by with not doing or just half assing.

Well, isn't your point that the coaches voted on All-NBA teams back then and the fact that DRob wasn't on any All-NBA team imply that he wasn't that good in 1999? It was the coaches (who supposed know more than media writers/journalists) who didn't vote him in.

[tpols]

Well, isn't your point that the coaches voted on All-NBA teams back then and the fact that DRob wasn't on any All-NBA team imply that he wasn't that good in 1999? It was the coaches (who supposed know more than media writers/journalists) who didn't vote him in.

I mean you're a spurs fan right? You weren't impressed with David Robinsons all time elite defense and high efficiency scoring? You don't give kudos for sweeping Shaq & Kobe? Shaq was +1 in that series and averaged 23 PPG. For his standards he got locked down and David Robinson was the one guarding him. You don't appreciate that?

[Shooter]

That's a falsified image.

I just looked up the all time VORP leaders.

David Robinson is ranked 10th.

I'll give it to the bran gang... He's ranked number 1.

Jordan would totally punk him head to head but he is a better QB.

No it's real. It's called PLAYOFFS. That is what we're talking about, right cupcake?

[Shooter]

Keep in mind OP did the same thing to tell us Reggie Miller was a superstar.

Advanced stats are good supplementary information. You have to look at what their components are and be able to distinguish between them and the purpose of them. OP is notorious for boiling players to their ORTG and DRTG (not grasping they don't work the same way--you can have a 150 ORTG but realistically no one will have a 50 DRTG). Kerr had a 141 ORTG and a 106 DRTG in 96'. According to ttrolls' logic, that means Kerr had a +35 per 100 possession impact on the game. That is downright insane. But you have to understand the stat, who Kerr was, etc. to understand that.

99' Robinson>94'/95' Robinson is crazy talk. Then again, this same poster hours ago said 91' Pippen was peak Pippen. It never ends with this tool.



Good catch. Let's use his favorite stats.

Gasol 10' in the PO: 126 ORTG, 107 DRTG. "Split": Gasol +19
Kobe 10' in the PO: 115 ORTG, 109 DRTG. "Split": Kobe +6

Gasol 09' in the PO: 124 ORTG, 102 DRTG. "Split": Gasol +22
Kobe 09' in the PO: 117 ORTG, 104 DRTG. "Split": Kobe +13

Damn, Gasol was not only the best player based on his "splits", these are GOAT type impacts since tpols thinks these "splits" are the same as plus/minus impact.

So based on Tpols own analysis, Gasol was FMVP in 2009 and 2010. Interesting.

[MadDog]

Didn't the OP use DRTG in his analysis too? I realize that it can be dependent on teammates, but by most measures, an "87 DRTG" is world-class.

[Roundball_Rock]

So based on Tpols own analysis, Gasol was FMVP in 2009 and 2010. Interesting.

Yup. If Gasol is that far ahead of Kobe, can you imagine how far ahead Shaq was?

Didn't the OP use DRTG in his analysis too? I realize that it can be dependent on teammates, but by most measures, an "87 DRTG" is world-class.

DRTG and ORTG are useless since they aren't sides of the same coin. It was never intended to be what ttrols thinks it is (he thinks it is a version of plus-minus while eschewing actual advanced plus-minus stats) and isn't set up that way. 87 DRTG is GOAT level; 113 ORTG is good but not a GOAT #. Therein lies the problem. It is much easier to post big numbers in ORTG than DRTG.

Case in point: the all-time career high ORTG is 122; for DRTG it is 95. 95 is analogous to an ORTG of 105. The problem is obvious to anyone but the OP.

[tpols]

Gasol didn't produce on the volume Kobe did. You can't compare efficiency 30 PPG to 19 PPG.

That's not apples to apples.

Kobe always had a higher VORP. Robinson had a higher VORP than Tim Duncan. Why? He played better defense. Duncan was nice, but D-Rob was a Bill Russell level defender.

[Shooter]

Gasol didn't produce on the volume Kobe did. You can't compare efficiency 30 PPG to 19 PPG.

That's not apples to apples.

Kobe always had a higher VORP. Robinson had a higher VORP than Tim Duncan. Why? He played better defense. Duncan was nice, but D-Rob was a Bill Russell level defender.

"Didn't Produce on the same volume." Hmm, and would you add passing and rebounding as producing volume as well? Please let us know so we can easily crown LeBron as Goat load carrier

[Stanley Kobrick]

oh wow, i didn't realise Tpols was just an ordinary Kobe stan.

[Roundball_Rock]

"Didn't Produce on the same volume." Hmm, and would you add passing and rebounding as producing volume as well? Please let us know so we can easily crown LeBron as Goat load carrier

Gasol produced on a higher volume than 99' Robinson.

#Hypocrisy

[MadDog]

Yup. If Gasol is that far ahead of Kobe, can you imagine how far ahead Shaq was?



DRTG and ORTG are useless since they aren't sides of the same coin. It was never intended to be what ttrols thinks it is (he thinks it is a version of plus-minus while eschewing actual advanced plus-minus stats) and isn't set up that way. 87 DRTG is GOAT level; 113 ORTG is good but not a GOAT #. Therein lies the problem. It is much easier to post big numbers in ORTG than DRTG.

Case in point: the all-time career high ORTG is 122; for DRTG it is 95. 95 is analogous to an ORTG of 105. The problem is obvious to anyone but the OP.

I wouldn't call them useless, but if the OP used DRTG/ORTG as "splits" then that would be impractical. You'd get odd outcomes as a result. I think DRTG is alright to use but not perfect, and there are better stats out there for sure. I saw you posting on/off data for AD/LeBron and while I can accept that, measures like real plus minus and predictive plus minus are better. Most people know these stats in and out, but are lazy to look them up. So I wont get into the specifics there.