ESPN calculates that peak Jordan would average 45 today based on more threes and pace

[8Ball]

Who cares if you're an MJ guy if your math is wrong and you're getting it wrong?

If MJ already averaged 33 on championship runs, then why would he get 33 in today's higher pace and drtg?

And don't bother answer I don't care.. I know you're a scared dope and know nothing.. I've read enough of your garbage

Jordan can average 45 points a game and his team will average 30 wins a season.

I like that.

[Phoenix]

Jordan can average 45 points a game and his team will average 30 wins a season.

I like that.

And 12-15 rebounds, Giannis numbers. On top of the 45ppg. A new Psych grad could make a career outta that kind of delusion.

[Roundball_Rock]

What about assists? 45/15. What about assists? 45/15/10?

Then the very same people pop up in other threads comparing numbers for MJ's teammates with numbers for players in this era (they never do the same exercise with MJ's competition and this era ) without any reference to pace, spacing, hand checking, rim protection, etc. since we can compare numbers in a series that was 88-80 PPG to what goes on today straight up because both are the same, right?

Are they lying when they tell us these things relative to MJ or are they lying when they say these things don't apply to his teammates? Both can't be true. Jordan can't go from 33/7 to 45/15 and his teammates not see any boost.

[GrayGoat]

3ball getting decimated in here

[3ball]

Yeah and in general, nobody nowadays plays as many minutes as they played back then. League leaders are at 37 mpg. I bet ESPN didn't mention this, either. For Jordan to average 45, he'd need to average more than 1.2 ppm, which is beyond ridiculous a figure that nobody has ever approached, regardless of rule elasticity and number of fouls drawn.

Jordan would get 45 because of higher pace and drtg - like ESPN said - and he'd set the standard with 39-42 mpg

I'll take the pros word (players, coaches, media) over you lames.. you guys didn't even play.

[HoopsNY]

Jordan would get 45 because of higher pace and drtg - like ESPN said - and he'd set the standard with 39-42 mpg

I'll take the pros word (players, coaches, media) over you lames.. you guys didn't even play.

You don't seem to get it though. Scoring 45 PPG won't result in a winning brand of basketball. I personally don't believe that he would score that much, but even if he did, so what?

Jordan was a great leader and great leaders don't let their teammates stand around while they play iso ball. Saying he would average around 33-35 PPG is not an insult. Most everyone thinks his efficiency numbers would go up along with it. Instead of shooting 51% like he did with Chicago, he probably shoots 52-53%.

How is any of this bad or unreasonable?

[HoopsNY]

basically all of these guys are fvcking midgets

MJ never faced athletic wings as big as him on a nightly basis like he would today

How ironic. They're "midgets" (guess Majerle doesn't count...and other 6'6" guards like Eddie Jones who was also a great defender), but LeBron routinely faced small forwards that were 6'8"-6'9" 250-260 lbs? How about at the PG position? You see PGs running around with that size?

Bran stans never apply their own logic to their boy toy.

[3ball]

You don't seem to get it though. Scoring 45 PPG won't result in a winning brand of basketball. I personally don't believe that he would score that much, but even if he did, so what?

Jordan was a great leader and great leaders don't let their teammates stand around while they play iso ball. Saying he would average around 33-35 PPG is not an insult. Most everyone thinks his efficiency numbers would go up along with it. Instead of shooting 51% like he did with Chicago, he probably shoots 52-53%.

How is any of this bad or unreasonable?

Winning was never mentioned in the OP

Did lebron make the playoffs in 04', 05', or 19'?

did he get eliminated in the 2nd Round in 06', 08', and 10'?

So the question wasn't winning because no one always wins...

The question was whether peak MJ would average 45+ and he clearly would if he was on the kind of team lebron had during his lottery or 2nd Round years

[sdot_thadon]

So many things wrong with this premise, most of them already addressed in the thread. Of course considering OP that's all a given isn't it?

It's not unrealistic to think he could average that, it's a guarantee tho if he puts up anything remotely in the neighborhood he's a cancer on a dumpster fire of a team....and in that case....who gives a shit? Also I think one is severely discounting the effort and energy it would take to put those numbers up for a season. Those 45 ppg also don't come without eating up even more than the 26 fga per game he put up in 93.

Since apparently for a take like this to work common sense must be left out of the equation lets see exactly how amazing this is. From 33 ppg in 93 to putting up 45 a game in 2020 is roughly a 36-37% scoring increase....

93 Bulls 144 ppg (#1 scoring team in 2020 was Milwaukee at 119 ppg)

MJ's starting 5

Bj Armstrong 17 ppg
Mj 45 ppg
Scottie Pippen 25 ppg
Horace Grant 18 ppg
Bill Cartwright 8 ppg

plus a 30 ppg bench unit.

How much help does Mj need???

[3ball]

So many things wrong with this premise, most of them already addressed in the thread. Of course considering OP that's all a given isn't it?

It's not unrealistic to think he could average that, it's a guarantee tho if he puts up anything remotely in the neighborhood he's a cancer on a dumpster fire of a team....and in that case....who gives a shit? Also I think one is severely discounting the effort and energy it would take to put those numbers up for a season. Those 45 ppg also don't come without eating up even more than the 26 fga per game he put up in 93.

Since apparently for a take like this to work common sense must be left out of the equation lets see exactly how amazing this is. From 33 ppg in 93 to putting up 45 a game in 2020 is roughly a 36-37% scoring increase....

93 Bulls 144 ppg (#1 scoring team in 2020 was Milwaukee at 119 ppg)

MJ's starting 5

Bj Armstrong 17 ppg
Mj 45 ppg
Scottie Pippen 25 ppg
Horace Grant 18 ppg
Bill Cartwright 8 ppg

plus a 30 ppg bench unit.

How much help does Mj need???

No you just don't understand basketball

When MJ came back to the bulls in 95' and 96', everyone took a tiny haircut to accommodate his 30 ppg... Literally, everyone saw a 1-2 point drop in their ppg

That's what would happen if you replaced Zach Lavine's 25 with the goat's 45.. just like 96' when Pete Myers' 10 ppg was replaced with MJ's 30

Notice how Jordan's "no weakness" game provided equitable reductions across the board, while lebron's 1-dimensional game causes certain guys to crater (and the team to play under-capacity) lol

[3ball]

No you just don't understand basketball

When MJ came back to the bulls in 95' and 96', everyone took a tiny haircut to accommodate his 30 ppg... Literally, everyone saw a 1-2 point drop in their ppg

That's what would happen if you replaced Zach Lavine's 25 with the goat's 45.. just like 96' when Pete Myers' 10 ppg was replaced with MJ's 30

Notice how Jordan's "no weakness" game provided equitable reductions across the board, while lebron's 1-dimensional game causes certain guys to crater (and the team to play under-capacity) lol

sdot, you still breathin there bud?

[Keno]

MJ couldn't shoot 3's to save his life, how would this era benefit him again? MJ would be a poor mans Kawhi / Butler (this finals) in this era.

[sdot_thadon]

No you just don't understand basketball

No. The problem here is I understand basketball and don't subscribe to the perverted, bastardized view you have of the game. I respect the game enough to know it's not logical to expect anyone to put up 45 a game over the course of 82, even the goat. (Keeping in mind Wilt pulled it off, albeit in an entirely different world and right next to the basket for it)

When MJ came back to the bulls in 95' and 96', everyone took a tiny haircut to accommodate his 30 ppg... Literally, everyone saw a 1-2 point drop in their ppg

That's what would happen if you replaced Zach Lavine's 25 with the goat's 45.. just like 96' when Pete Myers' 10 ppg was replaced with MJ's 30

Notice how Jordan's "no weakness" game provided equitable reductions across the board, while lebron's 1-dimensional game causes certain guys to crater (and the team to play under-capacity) lol

You've responded to my post without responding to my reasoning. When Mj replaced Pete Myers 10 ppg how did that work out, I forget....? Again, where will the shots come from to sustain that level of scoring. And if it isn't a viable way of team success, who gives a shit?

[Roundball_Rock]

Since apparently for a take like this to work common sense must be left out of the equation lets see exactly how amazing this is. From 33 ppg in 93 to putting up 45 a game in 2020 is roughly a 36-37% scoring increase....

93 Bulls 144 ppg (#1 scoring team in 2020 was Milwaukee at 119 ppg)

MJ's starting 5

Bj Armstrong 17 ppg
Mj 45 ppg
Scottie Pippen 25 ppg
Horace Grant 18 ppg
Bill Cartwright 8 ppg

plus a 30 ppg bench unit.

How much help does Mj need???

Don't do them like this!

Yeah, and that was a low year for Pippen who played the RS with an injured ankle. He was at 21 the prior year and 22 the next year. So with the corresponding bump, 22 PPG becomes 30 PPG. Grant goes to 21 PPG. BJ 19 PPG.

When MJ came back to the bulls in 95' and 96', everyone took a tiny haircut to accommodate his 30 ppg

This is, as usual, yet another lie. Here are the 95' splits before and after MJ's 24 FGA. GS=game score, US=usage rate, TS=true shooting percentage.

Pippen w/out Jordan: 21.9/8.4/5.1 18.7 GS 56.1% TS 27.1% US
Pippen with Jordan: 19.7/6.9/5.6 16.7 GS 54.9% TS 24.6% US

Kukoc w/out Jordan: 16.4/5.5/4.6 14.1 GS 57.9% TS 22.6% US
Kukoc with Jordan: 13.0/5.3/4.4 11.5 GS 55.8% TS 19.8% US

Armstrong w/out Jordan: 14.7/2.3/3.2 10.5 GS 56.2% TS 20.2% US
Armstrong with Jordan: 11.4/2.1/2.1 9.4 GS 66.6% TS 14.6% US

Kerr w/out Jordan: 8.2/1.4/1.8 6.3 GS 63.5% TS 14.3% US
Kerr with Jordan: 8.4/1.8/1.8 7.1 GS 63.7% TS 13.3% US

Perdue w/out Jordan: 8.5/7.0/1.1 7.1 GS 57.6% TS 19.4% US
Perdue with Jordan: 6.1/5.6/1.2 5.8 GS 54.2% TS 14.8% US

5 leading scorers without Jordan: 69.7 PPG 11.3 GS 58.3% TS 20.7% US
5 leading scorers with Jordan: 58.6 PPG 10.1 GS 59.0% TS 17.4% US

They went from 70 PPG to 59 PPG and Pippen/Kukoc went from 38 PPG to 33 PPG. Only Armstrong benefitted in any way on paper, which is ironic because a major reason they let BJ go is he didn't like his tiny role with MJ back.

Also note the game score declines for each player, except Kerr.