Historical fact: LeBron never carried a team to the ring because...

[MadDog]

LeBron fans ahdere to career totals, but when you tell them Kareem > LeBron in points/rebounds/blocks/shooting they bowl over And don't think about switching to "PER GAME" either. Your deity is beat there too *Jordan enters the chat*

[TheCorporation]

LeBron fans ahdere to career totals, but when you tell them Kareem > LeBron in points/rebounds/blocks/shooting they bowl over And don't think about switching to "PER GAME" either. Your deity is beat there too *Jordan enters the chat*

Kareem is third in playofff points
MJ is second
LeGoat is first

Keep. Up.

[Keno]

Damn

hahahah how embarrassing. imagine being called the 'goat' when you have one job to do. meanwhile legoat needs to do everything for his team to even stand a fighting chance, levels to this shit.

[TheCorporation]

hahahah how embarrassing. imagine being called the 'goat' when you have one job to do. meanwhile legoat needs to do everything for his team to even stand a fighting chance, levels to this shit.

BIG levels to this shit

[Roundball_Rock]

3ball always loses

Yes, he does. He is a jizz rag who gets "trains" run on him in thread after thread.

More losing :

Another reason MJ stans don't talk about the scoring of the comp follows below. Forget sidekicks. Let's check perimeter #1's (because their FG % is more apples to apples than comparing a 7'4" C to a SF who took threes and mid-range shots for most of his attempts) in the Finals/ECF. Let's apply their own metric they use for MJ's teammates--PPG and FG %--to #1's on the comp.

Perimeter #1's Vs. the Bulls (1991-1998)

91' ECF Isiah 17 on 41%
91' Finals Magic 19 on 43%
92' ECF Price 19 on 48%
92' Finals Drexler 25 on 41%
96' Finals Payton 18 on 44%
97' ECF Hardaway 17 on 35%
98' ECF Miller 17 on 42%

So in these 7 series, the opposing #1 cleared 20+ only once and they were below 44% shooting in 6 of 7 series. Zero above 50%. Yet they complain about Pippen's scoring as a 2nd option when this is what perimeter #1 stars were doing?

The false impression they want to convey is 20 PPG is bad for a sidekick because there were all these other sidekicks putting up 25-30 PPG in that era when perimeter #1's weren't even doing that (it was only MJ, and Wilkins on bad or average teams--Drexler was 23 PPG for his prime from 1988-1995).

Why did Jordan average 4 rebounds and 3 assists in the 98 Finals.

It was actually 2 assists. You must be thinking of Kerr who averaged 3 in half of MJ's minutes (granted, we are talking 2.5 rounded versus 2.3).

[Ben Simmons]

I didnt actually realize he did this for both teams until just now lol

[Roundball_Rock]

Here is what percentage of total points in a series their sidekicks scored. I excluded Game 5 of the 97' ECF because Pippen played only 7 minutes and excluded the 2 games Irving missed in the 15' ECF (I took his average in games played and put it against the average points scored for both teams in the series).

You will never guess who had slightly more help when you adjust for series where teams were scoring 168 versus series where teams were scoring 237!

Sidekick Share of Total Points Scored in Finals/ECF


1991 ECF: Pippen 11%
1991 Finals: Pippen 11%
1992 ECF: Pippen 10%
1992 Finals: Pippen 10%
1993 ECF: Pippen 12%
1993 Finals: Pippen 10%
1996 ECF: Pippen 10%
1996 Finals: Pippen 9%
1997 ECF: Pippen 13%
1997 Finals: Pippen 11%
1998 ECF: Pippen 9%
1998 Finals: Pippen 10%
Avg.: Pippen 10.5%

2011 ECF: Wade 11%
2011 Finals: Wade 14%
2012 ECF: Wade 11%
2012 Finals: Wade 11%
2013 ECF: Wade 8%
2013 Finals: Wade 10%
2014 ECF: Wade 10%
2014 Finals: Wade 8%
Avg.: Wade 10.4%

2015 ECF: Irving 7% (when he played—missed half the series)
2015 Finals: Smith 6%
2016 ECF: Irving 12%
2016 Finals: Irving 14%
2017 ECF: Irving 12%
2017 Finals: Irving 12%
2018 ECF: Love 6%
2018 Finals: Love 9%
Cavs II Avg.: 9.8%

[HylianNightmare]

*shortened season
*ray allen
*kyrie
*scrimmage

2 eZ

[aceman]

Bulls only won with Pippen & Jordan. Without power forward = grant or rodman even pip & mj weren't enough

[Gray GOAT]

This is what carrying a basketball team looks like, not just scoring.

LeCarry.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bulls only won with Pippen & Jordan. Without power forward = grant or rodman even pip & mj weren't enough

Yup. Why do people ignore this? We saw the Bulls without Rodman/Grant one year in the playoffs and we know what happened. That role was so important, MJ came back and the Bulls did worse in the playoffs with MJ/Pippen than they did with Pippen/Grant. The result was losing in the second round but they went from 6-4 to 6-5 and they played the Knicks closer (they actually outscored the Knicks in the series) than they did the Magic in 95'.

[3ball]

Yup. Why do people ignore this? We saw the Bulls without Rodman/Grant one year in the playoffs and we know what happened. That role was so important, MJ came back and the Bulls did worse in the playoffs with MJ/Pippen than they did with Pippen/Grant. The result was losing in the second round but they went from 6-4 to 6-5 and they played the Knicks closer (they actually outscored the Knicks in the series) than they did the Magic in 95'.

Everyone knows that MJ was coming back from baseball and wasn't the same, especially in clutch moments.. the advanced stats tell the story if you need statistical backup

And lebron never had a carry-job against a top team and therefore doesn't compare to Jordan, who had many

Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick... So he's trash to me and lacks the scoring ability to carry teams against good opponents

[Roundball_Rock]

Revisionism after the fact. The Bulls were considered legitimate contenders going into the 95' playoffs because Jordan was back, Pippen was a top 5 player in his peak, and they closed the season strong (24-10 after the all-star break and 13-4 with MJ).

Jordan himself pointed to being "a Horace Grant away" when he spoke about why they lost.

[3ball]

Revisionism after the fact. The Bulls were considered legitimate contenders going into the 95' playoffs because Jordan was back, Pippen was a top 5 player in his peak, and they closed the season strong (24-10 after the all-star break and 13-4 with MJ).

Jordan himself pointed to being "a Horace Grant away" when he spoke about why they lost.

Pippen was a top 5 player just like Paul George is - they both got #3 in MVP

pippen was nowhere near top 5 and that's the consensus

Anyway, the common thinking in 95' was that MJ wasn't the same coming back from baseball - this was the common thinking and you're revising history by saying otherwise..

You never watched MJ though so you don't realize he wasn't the same..

And lebron never had a carry-job against a top team and therefore doesn't compare to Jordan, who had many

Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick... So he's trash and lacks the scoring ability to carry teams against good opponents

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah. You know who else peaked at #3 in MVP? Wade, Davis.

Ewing? Never got to 3rd--peaked at 4th. Miller? Never cracked the top 10, when he got MVP votes he was tied with a teammate each of those two years in 5th place votes. Stockton? Never cracked the top 5.

George made one first/second all-NBA team in his career; Pippen made three first teams (as a comparison, Drexler and Ewing combined made 2 in their careers) and two seconds (would have been a third if he played the full season in 98').

George hasn't been on that level outside of the year--a level that caused you to say PG>AD, no?