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  1. #1
    I don't get picked last at the park anymore
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    Default Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    However, to hear some on this board tell it you'd think Pippen was closer to another Laker in Magic Johnson. Pippen was a above average passer out of the SF position, but Magic Johnson he ain't, although some on here would like us to believe just that. First, like Kobe, Pippen played much of his career in the triangle. The triangle is a read/react offense that gives players the option to pass or shoot depending on what the defense shows. He also played with the greatest assist target ever in Michael Jordan. So Pippen had plenty of opportunity to put up big assist numbers every time he stepped on the court as a Bull, but when you actually look at the production he wasn't going out there and breaking down defenses with their passing -- 5.2apg for Pippen vs 4.7apg for Bryant. Half an assist difference is probably nothing more than Kobe running the offense through Shaq in the post more vs Pippen playing with a finisher in Jordan. In other words, despite half an assist edge for Pippen, for practical purposes the two are near identical as passers.

    What's funny about this is that one of the biggest knocks on Kobe throughout his career was that he was generally regarded as ball hog, which was a reputation he probably earned. Shaq spent then 10 minutes in Kobe's eulogy recalling how Kobe wouldn't pass the damn ball, ever. You can find video after video on youtube of people lauding Kobe's me-first attitude on the court. So Kobe was really the exact opposite of a guy looking to distribute the ball. How then is putting up similar number to Pippen in the same offense? The answer is pretty simple... Pippen wasn't that great of play maker either. The numbers don't reflect him being anything more than an average to slightly above average facilitator in Phil's triangle. He got a bump from having Jordan as a finisher, also. The two years he played without Jordan in Phil's system, Pippen's assist numbers dropped out of the top 20 in assist both years. Kobe was putting up better assist and scoring numbers as a 23-year-old and second option in the triangle than Pippen's best and really only full season as primary scoring threat.

  2. #2
    Banned 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    MJ averaged equal assists to pippen but assisted 33% more often (MJ shot more than pippen and can't assist on those shots).. so MJ averaged equal assists, but much higher assist percentage

    And everyone said he was the best PG in the league after just a few games at PG in 1989..

    he's also the only player to average 10 apg in a series without starting at PG.. so he was a better quick-passer than lebron (getting assists without holding the ball a long time).

  3. #3
    Serious playground baller
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    LeBron is better than both of them and MJ anyway.

  4. #4
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    The Bulls' offense went from #1 in 97' to #13 w/out Pippen for half of 98'. Care to explain why Soundwave?

    The Bulls had a top 10 offense w/out Jordan but not w/out Pippen. #InconvenientTruth

  5. #5
    Decent college freshman Shooter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    As a #2 options vs a #1 option. Cool.

  6. #6
    Why So Serious? dbugz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock View Post
    The Bulls' offense went from #1 in 97' to #13 w/out Pippen for half of 98'. Care to explain why Soundwave?

    The Bulls had a top 10 offense w/out Jordan but not w/out Pippen. #InconvenientTruth






    dude is ignoring these

  7. #7
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    As a #2 options vs a #1 option. Cool.

  8. #8
    Local High School Star
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Pippen was a far better playmaker than Kobe. Career assists don't tell the entire story, peak/prime years do. Pippen averaged 6 assists in his compared to Kobe's 5.

    It's not the world of difference, but anyone who saw the two play knew that Pippen was the better floor general.

  9. #9
    Banned 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock View Post
    The Bulls' offense went from #1 in 97' to #13 w/out Pippen for half of 98'. Care to explain why Soundwave?

    The Bulls had a top 10 offense w/out Jordan but not w/out Pippen. #InconvenientTruth
    Actually, the Bulls' defensive ranking remaining unchanged from the first 3-peat (7th, 4th, 7th), to 1994 (6th)

    So the massive drop-off from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd round team can be attributed entirely the absence of MJ's goat offense, which caused their ORtg to crater from #1 all-time (during the 3-peat) to 14th in the league in 1994.

  10. #10
    Local High School Star light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Pippen's career assist rate per 100 possessions is 7.8 which is only 0.1 points behind the great passer Larry Bird's 7.9.

    Kobe's is 6.7.

    (For reference, Jordan was 7.0 and LeBron is 10.0)

    Kobe played more minutes and had the ball more than Pippen.

    Kobe was a true black hole.


  11. #11
    Banned 3ball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by light View Post
    Pippen's career assist rate per 100 possessions is 7.8 which is only 0.1 points behind the great passer Larry Bird's 7.9.

    Kobe's is 6.7.

    (For reference, Jordan was 7.0 and LeBron is 10.0)

    Kobe played more minutes and had the ball more than Pippen.

    Kobe was a true black hole.

    Pippen and MJ average the same APG, but MJ took more shots and can't assist on those shots

    So what's their assist percentage, including regular season and playoffs?

  12. #12
    Why So Serious? dbugz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    3ball winning this via sweep

  13. #13
    Consensus Top 20-30 AT Roundball_Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by light View Post
    Pippen's career assist rate per 100 possessions is 7.8 which is only 0.1 points behind the great passer Larry Bird's 7.9.

    Kobe's is 6.7.

    (For reference, Jordan was 7.0 and LeBron is 10.0)

    Kobe played more minutes and had the ball more than Pippen.
    Plus, if these MJ stains actually watched MJ play they would know the triangle deflates assist totals (and offenses like D'Antoni's or Sloan's inflate assists).

    Both players played outside the triangle later in their career. Pippen's per 100 was 9.8 in 02' in Portland, Kobe's high was 8.3 (he missed 3/5 of the season--7.9 for a full season). Jordan's was 9.9 the year he was stat padding (which he publicly admitted--he even had coaches give him regular updates on his stats and would frequently check the stats at the scorer's table) trying to match Magic in "triple doubles." Outside of that, his high was 8.1. As a comparison, LeBron's is 14.0.

    OP is so bad he is embarrassed to post it under his main "Soundwave" and "LostCause" accounts.

  14. #14
    I don't get picked last at the park anymore
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock View Post
    The Bulls' offense went from #1 in 97' to #13 w/out Pippen for half of 98'. Care to explain why Soundwave?

    The Bulls had a top 10 offense w/out Jordan but not w/out Pippen. #InconvenientTruth
    I would explain it as cherry picking stats. The Pippen-led Bulls were 35-32 when Jordan unretired in 1995 and on a pace to win 42 games and scoring 100ppg on average. After Jordan came back they went 13-4 (62 win pace) and bumped their scoring average to 104ppg, which was only a point less their league-leading record setting 1996 team -- a top 10 offense all-tim in terms of ORtg. Both the 1994 and 1995 Bulls teams were middle of the pack in terms of scoring prowess while playing weak schedules. Nothing special, really. Those Pippen teams were book-ended by the 1993 and 1996 which are arguably two of the greatest offenses to ever step on the court. So, no, the Bulls were not better offensively without Jordan.

  15. #15
    Decent college freshman Shooter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pippen put up 1/2 (.5) career assists per game more than ball hog Kobe.



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