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  1. #31
    National High School Star dankok8's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    You're misinformed 3ball... Russell had better casts but not by the margins you're insinuating and Wilt had better casts in a few years as well. You have to realize that guys like Frank Ramsey and KC Jones would never be HOFers without all the rings that Russell brought them. HOFer counts have an outcome bias. If Wilt won some of those times more of his teammates could have made the hall.

    Wilt's teams were definitely competitive in 1965 and 1966 and better from 1967 to 1969.

    # of HOFers on Their Teams - Year by Year

    1960: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1961: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1962: Russell - 6 Wilt - 4
    1963: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1964: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1965: Russell - 5 Wilt - 4
    1966: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1967: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1968: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1969: Russell - 4 Wilt - 3

  2. #32
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by dankok8 View Post
    You're misinformed 3ball... Russell had better casts but not by the margins you're insinuating and Wilt had better casts in a few years as well. You have to realize that guys like Frank Ramsey and KC Jones would never be HOFers without all the rings that Russell brought them. HOFer counts have an outcome bias. If Wilt won some of those times more of his teammates could have made the hall.

    Wilt's teams were definitely competitive in 1965 and 1966 and better from 1967 to 1969.

    # of HOFers on Their Teams - Year by Year

    1960: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1961: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1962: Russell - 6 Wilt - 4
    1963: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1964: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1965: Russell - 5 Wilt - 4
    1966: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1967: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1968: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1969: Russell - 4 Wilt - 3
    Also Wilt was by far better than anyone on the Celtics. That evened things

  3. #33
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGoat View Post
    He lost chips because he felt like it. His production dropped 12ppg in the finals because he felt like it

    His production dropped in the finals because most of them were after he stopped trying to score and might play 47 minutes and take 8 shots....

    He wasn’t making the finals when he was doing 50ppg. His finals numbers are mostly from 14-24 ppg seasons when he stopped shooting.

  4. #34
    Nets Dynasty Manny98's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by coastalmarker99 View Post
    Seriously I don't know how people have Russell over Wilt all time as the data about the two matchups shows that Wilt would usually own Russell but it didn't even matter as the rest of the Celtics would destroy his crap supporting cast. which would usually give the Celtics the win no matter how well Wilt played on both ends for his teams.
    Russell played a way better brand of basketball which lead to more team success

    Wilt obtained stats at the cost of team success

  5. #35
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny98 View Post
    Russell played a way better brand of basketball which lead to more team success

    Wilt obtained stats at the cost of team success
    That's bs

    All three of Wilt's teams become better teams when he joined such as getting better records and other stuff and two both the 76ers and Lakers highest regular-season win totals in history had both Wilt being on their teams as the best player and team leader.

    Wilt Chamberlain MVP vote finishes by year. 1960(Rookie): 1st 1961: 4th 1962: 2nd 1963: 7th 1964: 2nd 1965(Traded midway through the season): 5th 1966: 1st 1967: 1st 1968: 1st 1969(On the Lakers now): DNP 1970(Injured): DNP 1971: DNP 1972: 3rd 1973: 4th Retires

    1960: Comes into the league, as a rookie, averages 38 points(led league)/27 rebounds(led league)/2 assists on 46% shooting, the 6th highest in the league. Led the Warriors to a 49-26 record, the second-highest in the league, and a 17 game improvement from the year prior. Wins MVP and Roy along with all-star game MVP and is voted first team.

    1961: Wilt averages 38/27/2 on 51%, leading the league in ppg, rpg, and FG%, leading the Warriors to a 46-33 record, third in the league. The MVP, Bill Russell, didn't even make the all-NBA first team, and Wilt did. The first of many robberies.



    1962 Wilt leads the Warriors to a 49-31 record, third in the league, averaging 50/25/2.5 on 51%, leading the league in ppg and rpg. The next closest guy in scoring, Walt Bellamy, was behind by 19 ppg. Again, Wilt made 1st team all-NBA over the MVP, Bill Russell. Highway robbery.

    1963 After losing Tom Gola(injury) and Paul Arizin, the Warriors move to San Fransisco, and also lose their coach, Alex Hannum. This season, Wilt puts up 45/24/3.5 on 53%, leading the league in ppg, rpg, and FG%. However, the Warriors had lost much of their offence with Gola and Arizin, and their next high scorer was Guy Rodgers, averaging 14 ppg on 39%. Due to having no offensive threat other than Wilt, the Warriors went 31-49, finishing 3 games out of the playoffs, and Wilt finished 7th in MVP voting. Not a robbery, but I think he was the best player that season.

    1964: Wilt averages 37/22/5 on 53%, leading the league in ppg, and second in rpg and FG%, and leads the Warriors to a 48-32 record, the best in the West, with no other players even shooting 46%. Wilt again makes the all-NBA first team and finishes behind Oscar Robertson, who averaged 31/10/11, on 48%, on a team with a 55-25 record, second in the conference, but with a far better supporting cast. Not the worst robbery, but this is another Mvp that should've gone to Wilt.

    1965 The Warriors start the season 11-27, and they need to make some changes. They trade Wilt, currently averaging 39/24/3 on 50%, to the Philadelphia 76ers. The Warriors would finish 17-63, going 6-36 in games Wilt didn't play. The Sixers had gone 36-44 the year previous and were 21-24 so far without Wilt. They didn't see immediate success, as it took them a while to gel, but they ended up going 19-16 in games Wilt played, and he averaged 30/22/4 on 53%. Russell won MVP leading the Celtics to 62 wins. I think Russell deserved to win this Mvp this season.
    Last edited by coastalmarker99; 11-24-2020 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny98 View Post
    Russell played a way better brand of basketball which lead to more team success

    Wilt obtained stats at the cost of team success
    1966 Wilt averages 34/24/5 on 54%, leading the league in ppg, rpg, and FG%. The Sixers go 55-25, the best in the league. Wilt was by far the best player in the league, and playing on the best team. He definitely deserved this one, and this time they couldn't deny him.

    1967: Wilt averages 24/24/8 on 68%, insane efficiency, leading the league in rpg and FG%, and leads the Sixers to a 68-13 record, by far the best in the league. He ran away with the MVP this year, and this showed what could happen when you finally got a team around him.

    1968: Wilt averages 24/24/9 on 60%, leading the league in rpg, assists, and FG%, averaging almost a triple double, leading the Sixers to a 62-20 record, 6 games better than second place. Again, Wilt could not be denied. Just like Thanos, he was inevitable.

    1969: Wilt was traded to the Lakers in the offseason. They won 52 games the year before, powered by Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. This year, with West missing time from injuries and Baylor taking a step down from his knees degrading further. It was up to Wilt to hold them together He put up 21/21/5 on 58%, leading the league in rpg and FG%, Baylor put up 25/10/5 on 45%, West put up, 26/4/7 on 47% in the games he played. The Lakers won 55 games this year. Of all the Lakers, Baylor was the only one to get MVP votes. I think Wilt should've won the Mvp this year too.

    1970: In a season with high hopes for the Lakers, Wilt shreds his knee in the 9th game of the season. He had been playing very well up until this point, and while he would return for the playoffs, he was not the same player. Obviously no MVP votes this year. Lakers go 46-36.

    1971: On his first year back from his knee injury, Wilt puts up 21/18/4 on 55%, first in rpg and third in FG%. The Lakers go 48-34 in a tough west. With his knee injury, Wilt was done dominating like he did in his prime, but was still a very effective player.

    1972: Wilt averages 15/19/4 on 65%, leading the league in rpg and FG%. The Lakers went 69-13, rampaging through the league. Wilt finished 3rd in MVP voting behind Kareem and West, his teammate, who averaged 26/4/10 on 48%. Wilt also led the league in defensive win shares.


    1973: Wilt averages 13/19/5 on 73%, first in rpg and FG%. The Lakers go 60-22, tied for best in the west. Wilt finishes 4th in MVP voting, as he plays his role, the Bill Russell role, to perfection, as good or better than Russell did. Impressive how great he was at the age of 36.

    1974: Wilt retires, and in their first year without him, the Lakers go 47-35, a 13 game dropoff. Quite impressive how valuable he was to his team even at 36 on one good knee.

    Wilt led the league in Rebounding: '60, '61, '62, '63, '66, '67, '68, '69, '71, '72, '73 FG%: '61, '63, '65, '66, '67, '68, '69, '72, '73 Scoring: '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66 Assists: '68

    Placement in win shares each year 1960: 1st 1961: 1st 1962: 1st 1963: 1st 1964: 1st 1965: 4th(team switch year) 1966: 1st 1967: 1st 1968: 1st 1969: T-1st 1970: DNP(injured) 1971: 4th 1972: 2nd 1973: 2nd Safe to say there were definitely some robberies there.

    His MVP voting did not correlate to how valuable he actually was, and I'm guessing a large part of this is because the players were the ones who voted back the, and a lot of the players were jealous of Wilt, and his insane physical dominance, and just how much better he was.


    Therefore we can see that Wilt's impact on his teams was enormous.
    Last edited by coastalmarker99; 11-24-2020 at 05:17 PM.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by dankok8 View Post
    You're misinformed 3ball... Russell had better casts but not by the margins you're insinuating and Wilt had better casts in a few years as well. You have to realize that guys like Frank Ramsey and KC Jones would never be HOFers without all the rings that Russell brought them. HOFer counts have an outcome bias. If Wilt won some of those times more of his teammates could have made the hall.

    Wilt's teams were definitely competitive in 1965 and 1966 and better from 1967 to 1969.

    # of HOFers on Their Teams - Year by Year

    1960: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1961: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1962: Russell - 6 Wilt - 4
    1963: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1964: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1965: Russell - 5 Wilt - 4
    1966: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1967: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1968: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1969: Russell - 4 Wilt - 3


    Wilt played with 9 Hall of Fame teammates

    '60 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola '61 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola '62 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola '63 - T om Gola '64 - Nate Thurmond '65 - Nate Thurmond, Hal Greer, Chet Walker ' 66 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker ' 67 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker ' 68 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker '69 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor ' 70 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor '71 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich ' 72 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich ' 73 - Jerry West, Gail Goodrich

    Wilt's teammates that were All-Stars but NOT HOFers

    '62 - Tom Mescherry '63 - Guy Rodgers '64 - Guy Rodgers '65 - Luke Jackson

    Wilt had Hall Of Fame teammates on his team every single season of his career. 12/14 seasons he had at least 2 HOF teammates. Playoff FG%'s...

    '60 Arizin .43.1 Gola .41.2 '61 Arizin .32.5 Gola .20.6 ' 62 Arizin .37.5 Gola .27.1 ' 63 Gola...played 21 games and was shipped out '64 Thurmond .43.8 ' 65 Greer .45.5 Walker .48.0 ' 66 Greer .35.2 Cunningham .16.1 Walker .37.5 '67 Greer .42.9 Walker .46.7 Cunningham .37.6 ' 68 Greer .43.2 Walker .41.0 Cunningham broke a wrist in the first round (played 3 games) 69 West .46.9 Baylor .38.5 ' 70 West .46.9 Baylor .46.6 '71 West and Baylor...both injured and do not play in playoffs. Goodrich .42.5 ' 72 Baylor retires after 9 nine games. West .376. Goodrich .44.5 '73 West .44.9 Goodrich .44.8

    '62 Meschery was NOT an all-star. Shoots .39.7 in playoffs. '63 Meschery (* All-Star. Played 64 games. 16 ppg .42.5 FG% during the season.) '63 Rodgers (shoots .38.7 in the regular season. '64 Rodgers .32.9 in post-season. '65 Jackson .33.8 in playoffs.

    60 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .38.0 from the field. Lose game six of EDF's.

    '61 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .33.2 from the field. Lose in 1st round.

    '62 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .35.4 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

    '64 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .38.3 from the field. Lose in game five of Finals.

    '65 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .41.3 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

    '66 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .35.2 from the field. Lose in game five of EDF's.

    '67 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .42.8 from the field. Wins Title

    '68 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .41.6 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

    '69 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .42.1 from the field. Lose game seven of Finals.

    '70 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .46.9 from the field. Lose game seven of Finals.

    '71 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .446 from the field. Lose game five of WCF's.

    '72 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .414 from the field. Wins Title.

    '73 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .446 from the field. Lose game five of Finals.

    Look...year-after-year Chamberlain's teammates under-performed. Hell, even in their title year of 71-72...his teammates collectively shot .41.4, in a post-season NBA that shot 44.6. And yet, because of Wilt's efficiency, rebounding, and stifling defence, that team went 12-3 and won the title. Just amazing.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by dankok8 View Post
    You're misinformed 3ball... Russell had better casts but not by the margins you're insinuating and Wilt had better casts in a few years as well. You have to realize that guys like Frank Ramsey and KC Jones would never be HOFers without all the rings that Russell brought them. HOFer counts have an outcome bias. If Wilt won some of those times more of his teammates could have made the hall.

    Wilt's teams were definitely competitive in 1965 and 1966 and better from 1967 to 1969.

    # of HOFers on Their Teams - Year by Year

    1960: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1961: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1962: Russell - 6 Wilt - 4
    1963: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1964: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1965: Russell - 5 Wilt - 4
    1966: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1967: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1968: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1969: Russell - 4 Wilt - 3
    You should remember Dankok that Auerbach was always ADDING talent to Russell's teams. In Russell's rookie season, he not only joined with Cousy and Sharman, but he also had the ROY in Heinsohn. The next year they added Sam Jones. By the '62-63 season, they were fielding NINE HOFers, with Clyde Lovellette, who had averaged 20 ppg just the previous season, being their EIGHTH best player.

    In the mid-60's they added bailey Howell, who was a 20+ ppg scorer before Russell, and a 20 ppg scorer with Russell.

    And not only did they ALWAYS have HOF-laden teams, but they were always the deepest teams in the league. Furthermore, Russell played alongside those guys from between five to twelve seasons.

    Even Russell, himself, admitted that Sam Jones saved the Celtic season, SIX times with crucial game-winning shots. And Havlicek was a 20 ppg scorer, who exploded to a near 30 ppg scorer after Russell.

    Compare that to Wilt who had only played with 9 Hof teammates and And neither Tom Gola, nor Guy Rodgers should be in the HOF, either. Nor did Wilt play with a HOF Thurmond, either (for one full season, and when Thurmond was a rookie, playing part-time, out of position, and shooting .39.5 from the field. Hell, Chamberlain was stuck with those two in the '64 Finals, and Thurmond shot .32.6 from the field, while Rodgers shot his usual 25.8

    How about Gola in his three post-seasons with Wilt? He shot 41.2, 27.1, and even .20.6 Which was about what he shot without Wilt in his post-season career.

    And Baylor? Chamberlain played exactly ONE FULL season with Baylor, and in that post-season, Baylor blew chunks all over the floor.

    West? The two played together for five seasons, but only three full-time seasons. Overall, West had one great post-season, another very good one (but alas, in a game seven, he was humiliated by Frazier), one below average one, and one awful one. Oh, and he completely missed yet another one in 1971

    Still, most every player that Chamberlain played with, had their best seasons alongside Wilt. Players like Goodrich, Greer, Gola (yes, as bad as he was with Wilt, it was still his best season), Hairston, McMillian, Meschery, and others. And amazingly, when Wilt joined the Warriors, Paul Arizin's numbers only declined slightly, despite Chamberlain taking as many as 40 FGAs per game in a season.
    Last edited by coastalmarker99; 11-24-2020 at 07:21 PM.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by dankok8 View Post
    You're misinformed 3ball... Russell had better casts but not by the margins you're insinuating and Wilt had better casts in a few years as well. You have to realize that guys like Frank Ramsey and KC Jones would never be HOFers without all the rings that Russell brought them. HOFer counts have an outcome bias. If Wilt won some of those times more of his teammates could have made the hall.

    Wilt's teams were definitely competitive in 1965 and 1966 and better from 1967 to 1969.

    # of HOFers on Their Teams - Year by Year

    1960: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1961: Russell - 7 Wilt - 4
    1962: Russell - 6 Wilt - 4
    1963: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1964: Russell - 8 Wilt - 3
    1965: Russell - 5 Wilt - 4
    1966: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1967: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1968: Russell - 4 Wilt - 4
    1969: Russell - 4 Wilt - 3
    Moving one step further and responding to the argument that Wilt also had great teammates after 1965 here are some lines of the two in selected games that Boston won:

    Wilt: 29/26, Russell: 3/27, with 0 FGM (1966) Wilt: 46/34, Russell: 18/31 (1966 playoffs) Wilt: 30/28, Russell: 10/29 (1967) Wilt: 26/23, Russell: 4/26 (1967) Wilt: 28/30, Russell: 8/24 (1968 playoffs) Wilt: 35/19, Russell 5/16 (1969),

    and these are seasons when Wilt had good teammates (I won't even mention some even more impressive lines by Wilt in older games that Boston won). Did he dominate the ball too much and trusted his teammates too little? Not really. That Wilt was a damn good passer, as well, posting 5+ apg in 4 different seasons. Maybe it could be that, apart from the known blames of Wilt's playoff failures (and some mediocre, for his level, games), his otherwise "great" teammates didn't exactly do much to raise to the occasion, either:

    Billy Cunningham was one of the best rookies of the 1966 season. Then, he completely blew it in the playoffs. Hal Greer, a 44.5% FG shooter, dove to 35.2% against the Celtics (and his overall scoring went way down, as well). Chet Walker, a 45.2% FG shooter, went 37.5% in that series. These guys sucked way more than Wilt did, yet nobody remembers this.


    Add to this an inexperienced coach (Schayes) who never managed to even begin controling the egos of his players and his career practically was over before it even began (compare this to Russell having arguably the GOAT coach) and you have a recipe for disaster. Ironically, the game when Wilt trusted his teammates more than any other time (7th ECF in 1968) was also a game for which Wilt takes almost all the blame, and was another game when his teammates flopped badly.

    Because, if Greer, Jones and Walker could hit just a respectable % of their FG's instead of once against being in the low-mid 30's, the Sixers would be the NBA Finalists (and probably champions, as well) and nobody would now know that Wilt barely even shot in that second half. Instead, he might very well have a 3rd ring, increasing his GOAT case among fans.

    1969? It was Wilt's least productive series against Russell. Also, it was Baylor's least productive series against the Celtics, as well, and Baylor actually played even worse. If Wilt couldn't do a bit more (while guarded by Russell), why couldn't Baylor? It could be enough to give the Lakers the ring, which would increase Wilt's resume even more. Wilt, with 3 rings in a row (and 4 overall, along with 1972) would now be considered as having solved the Celtics' mystique and a legit winner, while doing nothing more than he did.




    All it takes would be a little more help from some teammates who are now simply branded "too good to lose a title with them". Just like it took a little more help from Jordan's teammates and a great coach to earn him rings in the 90's, despite Jordan not being really better individually in his title seasons than, say, the 1988-90 ones, so we don't have strange debates like "who was greater, Jordan or Isiah Thomas". (Baylor, btw, also had an equally mediocre 1970 Finals series, and Wilt in both series took a low number of FGA's, so it's not as if their roles collided).

  10. #40
    National High School Star dankok8's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    ^ Guy Rodgers is a HOFer.

    Good posts otherwise!

    I've debated this with Wilt fans so many times. It's just not interesting to me. All I can say is that I would draft Russell over Wilt right now if I had them in the same draft and I don't think anyone can post anything to convince me otherwise. Not to be disrespectful but I am very well versed in NBA history when it comes to those two. I've watched most of the available footage and observed/participated in POTY projects, analyzed their stats in every imaginable way and read loads of articles from that time.

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Here's a graph showing how Wilts team offenses improved the less he scored



    He didn't create for others at all, his fga to assist ratio is the worst of any player ever and he didn't start winning championships until he settled into a lesser role and focused on being the defensive anchor for the team

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by dankok8 View Post
    ^ Guy Rodgers is a HOFer.

    Good posts otherwise!

    I've debated this with Wilt fans so many times. It's just not interesting to me. All I can say is that I would draft Russell over Wilt right now if I had them in the same draft and I don't think anyone can post anything to convince me otherwise. Not to be disrespectful but I am very well versed in NBA history when it comes to those two. I've watched most of the available footage and observed/participated in POTY projects, analyzed their stats in every imaginable way and read loads of articles from that time.
    Same as I and the data about the two and the private footage that I have seen from Nba collectors and the Nba archive has allowed me to see about Wilt has me convinced that Wilt was the better player out of the two he just didn't have the teammates to back him up against Russell and the data supports me in that which is great.


    Funny fact about Guy Rodgers with 10 seconds left in the 1960 ecf game 6 and with the scores tied 107 107 each he had the chance to shoot two free throws to put the 76ers up by one or two points instead he missed both and then Tommy Heinsohn tipped the ball in the very next possession to give the Celtics the series victory.


    It would have been very interesting to see a game 7 between the two in 1960 if he hadn't had missed those clutch free throws as Russell would have been trying not to blow a 3 1 series lead to a rookie Chamberlain and his team who before the series had even started were 3 and 1 underdogs to win. Therefore you have to wonder that if Wilt wins that year maybe with some of that Celtics mystique gone that he would have won in other years like 1962 1965 1968 and 1969.
    Last edited by coastalmarker99; 11-24-2020 at 08:40 PM.

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny98 View Post
    Here's a graph showing how Wilts team offenses improved the less he scored



    He didn't create for others at all, his fga to assist ratio is the worst of any player ever and he didn't start winning championships until he settled into a lesser role and focused on being the defensive anchor for the team

    He did create for others when one player is flat out getting double and triple-teamed that frees the rest of his teammates to take wide-open shots it is not Wilt's fault that all of his teammates as a warrior would usually puke all over themselves in the playoffs and let Wilt down.






    Hell, I for one think Wilt should have been more selfish offensively as a player as if he had kept up that scoring mindest in the last seven years of his career he most likely wins rings in 1968,1969 and 1973 giving him 5 rings and a far better legacy, as a result of that.


    Wilt, unfortunately, sacrificed way too much for his teams past 1966 and he knows it too as in interviews and books he regrets that he lost that scoring mindset on the back end of his career as if he hadn't have done so he more then likely would have ended up with more then 2 rings and as a result of that he would have also silenced most of his critics forever.
    Last edited by coastalmarker99; 11-24-2020 at 08:39 PM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by coastalmarker99 View Post
    Same as I and the data about the two and the private footage that I have seen from Nba collectors and the Nba archive has allowed me to see about Wilt has me convinced that Wilt was the better player out of the two he just didn't have the teammates to back him up against Russell and the data supports me in that which is great.


    Funny fact about Guy Rodgers with 10 seconds left in the 1960 ecf game 6 and with the scores tied 107 107 each he had the chance to shoot two free throws to put the 76ers up by one or two points instead he missed both and then Tommy Heinsohn tipped the ball in the very next possession to give the Celtics the series victory.


    It would have been very interesting to see a game 7 between the two in 1960 if he hadn't had missed those clutch free throws as Russell would have been trying not to blow a 3 1 series lead to a rookie Chamberlain and his team who before the series had even started were 3 and 1 underdogs to win. Therefore you have to wonder that if Wilt wins that year maybe with some of that Celtics mystique gone that he would have won in other years like 1962 1965 1968 and 1969.
    Well Wilt from 1960-1965 undoubtedly had worse casts. How much worse is debatable. The problem at looking at HOFers and even All-Star appearances is that there is outcome bias. Players on title teams are way more likely to get accolades and obviously HOF nods than ones that aren't.

    1960... isn't that the year Wilt broke his hand in the playoffs?

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by dankok8 View Post
    Well Wilt from 1960-1965 undoubtedly had worse casts. How much worse is debatable. The problem at looking at HOFers and even All-Star appearances is that there is outcome bias. Players on title teams are way more likely to get accolades and obviously HOF nods than ones that aren't.

    1960... isn't that the year Wilt broke his hand in the playoffs?
    Yes it was the year he broke his hand in the playoffs and yet he still put 50 on Russell's head on the road during game 5 of that series which is very impressive

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