Was MJ overrated? (Thoughts inside)

[SATAN]

The league's ratings plummeted after MJ retired. Why do you think MJ returned in 2001? To make money? Btw, how's the league's ratings doing the last 10 years?



"Even if he was a great player!" It just gets worse with Bran stans. MJ goes from the GOAT, to one of the greatest, to top 10, to now not being sure if he was a great player at all!

I mean, you're crying about sharing a society with people like MJ fans, yet Bran stans never respond to the arguments posed by fans, right on this forum. The consistent response is, "1-9!" "No Pip No Chip!" Give me a break.

What's ratings or MJ's return got to do with anything? It is funny you mention that actually because a friend who is a citified casual and LeBron hater sent me a message one day about the low ratings in the bubble. He used that as evidence of MJ being the goat. You guys honestly wonder why you're being clowned so much these days when you've lowered the bar to viewership ratings during a pandemic and wide spread social upheaval, when almost all sports ratings are down... as opposed to the actual game of basketball??

"Even if" - that's poorly worded. Fine.

I'm not sure what you mean about "Bran stans" never responding unless it's a 3ball thread that consists of the same thing being said over and over again. Plenty have responded and the arguments just go around in circles. "didn't lose finals" "lost finals" "sidekick" "zone defense" ect ect ect

[SATAN]

You don't dislike mj but you clowned about him in the magic hiv thread, imagining what if he had the hiv instead?

Lmao the irony. Now you're going to tell to stfu again as usual.

Yes it would have been funny due to most MJ stans being very ignorant and homophobic. They would probably never watch basketball again. Not that they watch much since MJ's final retirement anyway. Who knows, it may have been great for basketball not having MJ stans constantly bitching about new players and proclaiming the plumbers and accountants of yesteryear played defense that was similar to actual bar brawls or Vietnam skirmishes.

[colts19]

Here's the thing, for the last 20 years you never heard of MJ having any faults. It was only how much greater he was then Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Magic, KAJ and Bird. Now you have an era where you have a generation of fans who have to try to find fault with MJ to knock him down so then can bring Bron up. I never agreed that MJ was that much better than those other players and I don't think Bron is that much better than them either. Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Magic KAJ. Bird and Bron are all time Greats. You can't really say one is better than the other, they just played different roles. It's easy to tear down Bird and Magic because they weren't the athlete's the others were. But they had basketball IQ"s that transcended the others so that made up for their lack of athletic ability.

[MadDog]

Mj admitted he couldn't even handle today's media environment. Of course you'll point to someone like Nick Wright without mentioning the fact he often gets laughed at by fellow cast members who seem to be MJ stans. How about Skip Bayless? No mention of him? The argument is almost pointless and cancels itself out.

"Jordan's game did the talking"

Dude get ****in' real. He was the media and NBA darling. He was a walking PR machine. Video after video. Oprah interview after Oprah interview. But it's no good when Nick Wright gets on air and talks about LeBron or LeBron tweets something?

Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

Were you even alive to see MJ play?

I don't even dislike MJ but it's hard not to call out all the absolute nonsense that's been spewed into the air over the past 3 decades. Especially by "casuals" like so many MJ stans are.

I'm also a better person than you.

I "mentioned" them because your dumb ass thinks only Jordan benefited from the media. Why pretend that LeBron doesn't either - in more ways than one and on different platforms. There were no morning talk shows gaslighting Jordan like there are now with Shannon Sharpe, Wright and Cowerd pumping up LeBron. Every morning these guys throw "GOAT" bait and sheeple like you eat it up. You willingly accept it yet continue to cry about "unfair" Jordan coverage.

I'm also a better person than you.

You're literally an alt account and named yourself "Satan". We'd probably need a forklift just to get you outta your basement.

[light]

Here's why MJ was overrated:

Scottie Pippen won 6 titles as the Bulls offensive organizer.
Scottie Pippen won 6 titles as the Bulls defensive quarterback.
Scottie Pippen won 6 titles as the Bulls vocal leader.

LeBron James won 4 titles as his team's offensive organizer.
LeBron James won 4 titles as his team's defensive quarterback.
LeBron James won 4 titles as his team's vocal leader.

Michael Jordan won 0 titles as the Bulls offensive organizer.
Michael Jordan won 0 titles as the Bulls defensive quarterback.
Michael Jordan won 0 titles as the Bulls vocal leader.

[SATAN]

I "mentioned" them because your dumb ass thinks only Jordan benefited from the media. Why pretend that LeBron doesn't either - in more ways than one and on different platforms. There were no morning talk shows gaslighting Jordan like there are now with Shannon Sharpe, Wright and Cowerd pumping up LeBron. Every morning these guys throw "GOAT" bait and sheeple like you eat it up. You willingly accept it yet continue to cry about "unfair" Jordan coverage.


You're literally an alt account and named yourself "Satan". We'd probably need a forklift just to get you outta your basement.

Where did I say only MJ benefited from the media? Where did I mention anything about fairness? You're assumptions and hypocrisy make this too easy.

[r0drig0lac]

6>4

[And1AllDay]

Here's why MJ was overrated:

Scottie Pippen won 6 titles as the Bulls offensive organizer.
Scottie Pippen won 6 titles as the Bulls defensive quarterback.
Scottie Pippen won 6 titles as the Bulls vocal leader.

LeBron James won 4 titles as his team's offensive organizer.
LeBron James won 4 titles as his team's defensive quarterback.
LeBron James won 4 titles as his team's vocal leader.

Michael Jordan won 0 titles as the Bulls offensive organizer.
Michael Jordan won 0 titles as the Bulls defensive quarterback.
Michael Jordan won 0 titles as the Bulls vocal leader.

issa



big



wrap

[Hey Yo]

MJ bullying his string bean nemesis ......

[And1AllDay]

MJ bullying his string bean nemesis ......

mike bullies 135 lb granny (1990s, colorized)

[HoopsNY]

What's ratings or MJ's return got to do with anything? It is funny you mention that actually because a friend who is a citified casual and LeBron hater sent me a message one day about the low ratings in the bubble. He used that as evidence of MJ being the goat. You guys honestly wonder why you're being clowned so much these days when you've lowered the bar to viewership ratings during a pandemic and wide spread social upheaval, when almost all sports ratings are down... as opposed to the actual game of basketball??

Of course you wouldn't know. The league needed MJ. After 1998, ratings had plummeted and there was talk of him rejoining the Wizards not only to "help the Wizards organization," but also to bolster TV ratings that had fallen six feet deep. I didn't mention that just for any reason.

Can Michael Jordan's return to the NBA fuel further fan interest, help the networks generate higher ratings, attract more advertising and boost television rights fee negotiations, all in the face of an economic decline and an impending war? That's what NBA and television executives alike are asking themselves today.

With Michael Jordan back on the basketball court, the NBA's TV ratings are expected to rise. Overall interest in the NBA has declined since Jordan last took the court in 1998. Average league attendance has slipped and its regular-season television ratings have dropped steadily, from 6.3 million viewers per game in Jordan's last season to four million viewers last season.

"Certainly the NBA, like all other major sports, has to deal with dilution and viewer fragmentation," said Neal Pilson, former president of CBS Sports and a TV consultant. "But the decline was so strong the year after he retired and our research indicates that a substantial number of people (watch NBA games only to see Jordan), much in the way that golf gets a Tiger Woods audience that does not otherwise watch the sport when he's not playing."

http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0923/1254606.html

Re-read my original comment. I mentioned tv ratings over the last ten years. That's not only including the bubble. Viewership took a significant hit after 1998. And the ratings have declined over the last five years, especially, just looking at the NBA finals. Have a look yourself if you don't believe me.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba...rship-history/

Look at the average viewers from 1998, ranging between 27-36 million per game. Game 6 of the 1998 finals was the highest of all time. Compare that to the last 5 seasons.

2016: 19-31 million
2017: 18-25 million
2018: 16-18 million
2019: 13-19 million
2020: 6-9 million

Go look at 2010-15, it declined from there as well. Fact remains is that the league has seen a steady decline. And it certainly doesn't compare to the league between 1991-98, either.

This isn't all on LeBron, but the "player empowerment" movement started well but shifted to team hopping, which ultimately took away from building championship caliber teams through coaches and systems. That, coupled with relaxed rule changes, gave way to Steph Curry basketball, which is what we see now - teams run up and down the court trading threes.

[trada7029]

.
PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie.'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron.... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone that could outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg).. Jordan infact popularized the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Finally, Lebron was a 1-trick pony before the "decision", with only 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd... Then Wade, AD, and Kyrie elevated him to champion - so this idea that lebron brings guys titles and therefore "makes guys better" is false - teaming up doesn't equal "making guys better" - it's just stacking the deck and talent-based winning.... virtually none of his primary teammates improved statistically alongside him because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning aka team-hopping)..

[HoopsNY]

.
PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie.'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron.... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone that could outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg).. Jordan infact popularized the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Finally, Lebron was a 1-trick pony before the "decision", with only 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd... Then Wade, AD, and Kyrie elevated him to champion - so this idea that lebron brings guys titles and therefore "makes guys better" is false - teaming up doesn't equal "making guys better" - it's just stacking the deck and talent-based winning.... virtually none of his primary teammates improved statistically alongside him because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning aka team-hopping)..

Dang, did you get banned again?

[trada7029]

PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie.'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron.... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1

^^^ So Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone that could outscore them)..

Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg).. Jordan infact popularized the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

[sdot_thadon]

Of course you wouldn't know. The league needed MJ. After 1998, ratings had plummeted and there was talk of him rejoining the Wizards not only to "help the Wizards organization," but also to bolster TV ratings that had fallen six feet deep. I didn't mention that just for any reason.



http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0923/1254606.html

Re-read my original comment. I mentioned tv ratings over the last ten years. That's not only including the bubble. Viewership took a significant hit after 1998. And the ratings have declined over the last five years, especially, just looking at the NBA finals. Have a look yourself if you don't believe me.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba...rship-history/

Look at the average viewers from 1998, ranging between 27-36 million per game. Game 6 of the 1998 finals was the highest of all time. Compare that to the last 5 seasons.

2016: 19-31 million
2017: 18-25 million
2018: 16-18 million
2019: 13-19 million
2020: 6-9 million

Go look at 2010-15, it declined from there as well. Fact remains is that the league has seen a steady decline. And it certainly doesn't compare to the league between 1991-98, either.

This isn't all on LeBron, but the "player empowerment" movement started well but shifted to team hopping, which ultimately took away from building championship caliber teams through coaches and systems. That, coupled with relaxed rule changes, gave way to Steph Curry basketball, which is what we see now - teams run up and down the court trading threes.

How about the more realistic view point of maybe we got more shit to do these days than we had in the 90s. We also have lot more possible ways to watch games now in the streaming, Internet era. The style of play was not THAT much more exciting in the 90s brother. The modern world isn't as easily entertained apparently.