No, Jordan could never win as an underdog. He didn't have the ability like a LeBron to Hulk-out in the playoffs and play every position to make up for everything his team lacked.
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12-01-2020, 01:47 PM #16Decent college freshman
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
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12-01-2020, 02:08 PM #17Decent college freshman
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Originally Posted by 3ball
Pippen had the most important role on offense. He made sure it ran.
Pippen's mastery of the triangle, coupled with his excellent leadership, was the reason why the Bulls were still successful without Jordan in 1994.
Pip was also the Bulls defensive "overseer", as Phil Jackson says in the above quote.
That means Scottie Pippen was the quarterback of the Bulls offense and the quarterback of the Bulls defense for all of Chicago's 6 titles.
Jordan didn't win a single title doing either of those jobs.
LeBron won 4 titles doing both Jordan's and Pippen's jobs simultaneously. On top of that he would also led his team in rebounding and blocks - covering the job of a PF or C.
Jordan was not capable of doing what LeBron does.
MJ was nowhere near as talented, nor as impactful, as LeBron James.
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12-01-2020, 02:38 PM #18Consensus, Cemented
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Yikes another thread that 3ball gets bamboozled in
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12-01-2020, 04:18 PM #19Banned
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Nope. Every one of his rings was won in a weak era against a bunch of scrub teams that couldn't even beat Hakeem and a bunch of role players after Jordan retired.
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12-01-2020, 04:28 PM #20The Puppeteer
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
LeBron has only been favored in 3 Finals series throughout his career. Just goes to show how tough his competition is and how much he had to carry.
Vegas odds at the start of the Finals:
https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nb...hv=&fd=&rd=fnl
2020 NBA Finals Los Angeles Lakers (1) -350 Miami Heat (5) +290 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2
2018 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (2) -1075 Cleveland Cavaliers (4) +688 Golden State Warriors 4-0
2017 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -300 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +250 Golden State Warriors 4-1
2016 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (1) +180 Cleveland Cavaliers 4-3
2015 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +190 Golden State Warriors 4-2
2014 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (1) -155 Miami Heat (2) +135 San Antonio Spurs 4-1
2013 NBA Finals Miami Heat (1) -220 San Antonio Spurs (2) +180 Miami Heat 4-3
2012 NBA Finals Oklahoma City Thunder (2) -175 Miami Heat (2) +155 Miami Heat 4-1
2011 NBA Finals Miami Heat (2) -175 Dallas Mavericks (3) +155 Dallas Mavericks 4-2
2007 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (3) -450 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +360 San Antonio Spurs 4-0
LeBron never had any cup cake Finals matches like MJ did except for maybe this year.
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12-01-2020, 06:52 PM #21College superstar
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
So when Lebron went hulk and playoff mode last year... Originally Posted by light
What happened?
Did Thanos come and bitch slap his "hulk"?
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12-01-2020, 06:54 PM #22College superstar
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Becauae they just regurgitate what ESPN talking heads say. Originally Posted by Axe
They have no actual knowledge about other ATG.
BTW, calling Jordan, Baldan is corny af dude. Ya gotta think about something else.
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12-01-2020, 07:05 PM #23NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
I remember seeing that article. That part where it ends at "Sometimes I'd gasp when an otherwise intelligent player would double-team when" is where he is talking about a player double teaming in a situation where he hadn't called for it and when he asked the player why they did it they would say "Scottie said to" and that was all the explanation needed. Also, it's pretty common knowledge Jordan wasn't a particularly vocal leader...especially during the first threepeat. Scottie was the player the role players started to look to for leadership as he was becoming a star. Originally Posted by light
Pippen had the most important role on offense. He made sure it ran.
Pippen's mastery of the triangle, coupled with his excellent leadership, was the reason why the Bulls were still successful without Jordan in 1994.
Pip was also the Bulls defensive "overseer", as Phil Jackson says in the above quote.
That means Scottie Pippen was the quarterback of the Bulls offense and the quarterback of the Bulls defense for all of Chicago's 6 titles.
Jordan didn't win a single title doing either of those jobs.
LeBron won 4 titles doing both Jordan's and Pippen's jobs simultaneously. On top of that he would also led his team in rebounding and blocks - covering the job of a PF or C.
Jordan was not capable of doing what LeBron does.
MJ was nowhere near as talented, nor as impactful, as LeBron James.Last edited by Smoke117; 12-01-2020 at 07:16 PM.
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12-01-2020, 07:15 PM #24The Bearded Menace
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
And you're clearly butthurt about it. Originally Posted by Baller789
Pfft.
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12-01-2020, 08:53 PM #25College superstar
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
I'm not. It's mostly cringeworthy. Originally Posted by Axe
It's not like Jordan was the only balding NBA player you know.
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12-01-2020, 11:51 PM #26NBA Superstar
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
this Originally Posted by Vino24
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12-02-2020, 01:01 AM #27Banned
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Originally Posted by FireDavidKahn
post the playoff odds for the 09' ecf, 10' ecsf, and 11' Finals (lebron lost all three as historic favorites).. And the odds were even in 2014 but he was beaten by record amount
So Lebron's Heat would've been favored entering the 12' Finals if Lebron wasn't the aforementioned trainwreck from 09-11' (above)
Furthermore, the Cavs were favored entering the 15' and 16' regular season, but underachieved in the regular season and were underdogs by the Finals (shit brand and underachievement of juggernaut talent).. So instead of flirting with 70 wins like curry and kawhi, lebron was winning 53 games with big 3's
Ultimately, Lebron fields vulnerable, non-juggernaut teams that usually aren't good enough to compete with elite chemistry and ball movement of the championship level.. he's a talent-based winner, which loses to organic chemistry (lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors).
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12-02-2020, 01:21 AM #28Banned
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Originally Posted by FireDavidKahn
post the playoff odds for the 09' ecf, 10' ecsf, and 11' Finals (lebron lost all three as historic favorites).. And the odds were basically even in 2014 but he was beaten by record amount
So Lebron's Heat would've been favored entering the 12' Finals if Lebron wasn't the aforementioned trainwreck from 09-11' (above)
Furthermore, the Cavs were favored entering the 15' and 16' regular season, but underachieved in the regular season and were underdogs by the Finals (shit brand and underachievement of juggernaut talent).. So instead of flirting with 70 wins like curry and kawhi, lebron was winning 53 games with big 3's
Ultimately, Lebron fields vulnerable, non-juggernaut teams that usually aren't good enough to compete with elite chemistry and ball movement of the championship level.. he's a talent-based winner, which loses to organic chemistry (lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors).
And it's a skill deficit. Lebron's inability to play the off-ball shooter role (ball-dominance) imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning, team-hopping)
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12-02-2020, 01:56 AM #29Banned
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Jordan LOST with an all star teammate in 1990 and 1995 Originally Posted by trada7029
LeBron won without any all star teammates in 2016
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12-02-2020, 05:50 AM #30College superstar
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Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?
Lebron also lost as favorite in a playoff series. Cry me a river. Originally Posted by Gus Hemmingway
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