Better Player: Hakeem or Duncan

[Axe]

hakeem but Giannis is better than both

[k0kakw0rld]

hakeem but Giannis is better than both

Giannis who never reached an NBA final is surely better than Duncan and Hakeem.

You are a small man. No point in insulting you. Your existence alone is a disgrace.

[ELITEpower23]

Hakeem is 8-12
Duncan is 4-7

Big difference in tiers

[HoopsNY]

Hot take

02-03 Duncan > 94-95 Hakeem

Duncan's peak is kinda underrated and Hakeem's peak is overrated imo

Not a hot take at all. Did you watch Hakeem throughout that playoffs? You're leaving out some important pieces here. For one, Houston didn't have HCA throughout the playoffs, whereas San Antonio did.

Hakeem brought his team back from being down 3-1 against a 60 win Utah team and ultimately prevailed. Then he took his team to a game 7 win in Phoenix. Hakeem took the lowest seed ever to win the NBA finals.

In addition, let's look at the offenses that Duncan faced vs that of Hakeem in the playoffs

SA Opp ORTG 2003

Phoenix: 20th
Los Angeles: 9th
Dallas: 1st
New Jersey:18th

Houston Opp ORTG 1995

Utah: 4th
Phoenix: 3rd
San Antonio: 5th
Orlando: 1st

Let's look at their playoff production:

Duncan 2003: 25/15/5/1/3 on 53%
Hakeem 1995: 33/10/5/1/3 on 53%

Hakeem led the league in Playoff PPG in 1995. Not to mention, Hakeem was guarded by Shaq and David Robinson in the two most important rounds of the playoffs, the WCF and the finals. Who guarded Duncan in those rounds? In addition, did Hakeem have a David Robinson like player in the low block for help defense?

Hakeem > Duncan

[dawsey6]

I feel like there are certain players whose presence basketball culture really truly misses, no matter how much the game changes.

Hakeem is one of those players.
Any big (or actually, any player for that matter) that does a crafty move in the paint, automatically someone's gotta talk about the Dream Shake, even if it didn't closely resemble it.

Hakeem would have torched the league today. On offense and defense. Possibly the most skilled big man ever, fierce competitor, super athlete (quick, fast, strong, AND had hops as a 7-footer). A much as I believe Duncan is not revered as much as he should be because he didn't give you raw emotion or a signature shoe, I'd still take Hakeem over him in a heartbeat.

[dawsey6]

Giannis has no shot as being better than Duncan or Hakeem.


you see what I did there??

d-...did you see it tho??

[TheGoatest]

This is probably the perfect example of the difference between better player (Hakeem) versus better career (Duncan).

[bizil]

Hakeem is better peak/prime wise. BUT Timmy has the edge GOAT wise. Other than passing, Dream was just as good or better scoring, defending, and rebounding wise. And he's the GOAT in terms of skill on the block for centers. I don't think there's a huge gap though. And frankly, Timmy in his first 4 or so years was a BETTER PLAYER than Dream in his first four or so years. But once Dream really got rolling, he was the best ALL AROUND center ever.

[goozeman]

Duncan literally does nothing better than Hakeem on a basketball court. Hakeem was a way more explosive scorer and much better rim protector/disruptor in the paint. Hakeem was a guy capable of leading the league in rebounds, offensive rebounds, blocks and top three in league scoring, and leading the playoffs in scoring three times, including averaging 30+ in the Finals. Duncan's best year as a scorer is barely top five year for Hakeem. Duncan's second best offensive year barely ranks as a top 10 season for Hakeem. The easy answer is Hakeem, and there are more reasons than just the stats that go into it. The rule changes like enforcing hand checking and the 3-second defensive rule allowed modern bigs to play a less physical brand of basketball. Hakeem played in a much more competitive and physical era for bigs and was DOMINANT. He wasn't just a guy playing his whole career with a HOF coach and two or three other HOF's his entire career. He played with some seriously average rosters for much of his career and got the opposing teams best game plan every night and still put up crazy numbers.

[houston]

Duncan was the better player.

[Round Mound]

Hakeem was better than Duncan at everything but Passing and Ballhandling. Hakeem was the more lethal scorer while guarded by real centers, better shooter, better footwork, better post player, better rebounder, better overall defender, better shot blocker, better rim protector and some forget; better floor defender: Hakeem was the best floor defender for centers and stealer only comparable guy was prime and peak David Robinson.

[highwhey]

Giannis has no shot as being better than Duncan or Hakeem.


you see what I did there??

d-...did you see it tho??

[HoopsNY]

We keep hearing from multiple posters that Duncan was a better player. Based on what exactly? And who was Duncan's opposition at his position when doing it that matched the likes of Kareem, Shaq, Eaton, Ewing, Robinson, Parish, etc?

In Duncan's first matchup against KG, he got outplayed. Duncan put up 19/11/3 on 46%. KG put up 22/12/4 on 44%. In game 4 of that series, KG went for 20/16/6 whereas Duncan went 16/8/0.

Who are these elite defensive PFs that Duncan always dominated in peak/prime? He had a great series in 2001 against KG and Malone in 1998, but Malone still outplayed him narrowly.

Now go look at what Hakeem did and against elite centers/defensive centers. It's not even close.

In Hakeem's rookie season he took it to Mark Eaton in the playoffs. Eaton was not only All-Defensive 1st team but also the DPOY. Look at what he did against guys like Kareem, Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq. Hakeem was a big game player. You just needed to surround him with the right pieces.

Duncan walked into a great situation with a veteran team that had great coaching. The Spurs were already a 60 win team in years past without him. In 1997 they won just 20 games because of Robinson's injury, but that team was always among the league leaders in wins.

Houston climbed from a 29 win team to a 48 win team with the addition Akeem. And if nearly his entire starting lineup and sixth man didn't succumb to career ending injuries and being banned by the NBA due to cocaine addiction, we would be talking about Hakeem stacking up 5-6 championships and possibly 7-8 finals appearances. How many players were legit quadruple-double threats in NBA history? Hakeem was one of them.

Literally no evidence is given or any analysis based on context, just claims of Duncan being better. We've heard some really outlandish claims like, "his era sucked." You literally can't make this stuff up.

[highwhey]

Not a hot take at all. Did you watch Hakeem throughout that playoffs? You're leaving out some important pieces here. For one, Houston didn't have HCA throughout the playoffs, whereas San Antonio did.

Hakeem brought his team back from being down 3-1 against a 60 win Utah team and ultimately prevailed. Then he took his team to a game 7 win in Phoenix. Hakeem took the lowest seed ever to win the NBA finals.

In addition, let's look at the offenses that Duncan faced vs that of Hakeem in the playoffs

SA Opp ORTG 2003

Phoenix: 20th
Los Angeles: 9th
Dallas: 1st
New Jersey:18th

Houston Opp ORTG 1995

Utah: 4th
Phoenix: 3rd
San Antonio: 5th
Orlando: 1st

Let's look at their playoff production:

Duncan 2003: 25/15/5/1/3 on 53%
Hakeem 1995: 33/10/5/1/3 on 53%

Hakeem led the league in Playoff PPG in 1995. Not to mention, Hakeem was guarded by Shaq and David Robinson in the two most important rounds of the playoffs, the WCF and the finals. Who guarded Duncan in those rounds? In addition, did Hakeem have a David Robinson like player in the low block for help defense?

Hakeem > Duncan

i always felt like Hakeem was the better player, but Duncan had the better overall career due to circumstances. He's very lucky to have been drafted by the Spurs.

[HoopsNY]

i always felt like Hakeem was the better player, but Duncan had the better overall career due to circumstances. He's very lucky to have been drafted by the Spurs.

And that's the best way to summarize this. One player had an unfortunate set of circumstances, the other one was gifted his. You can't just compare the two without accounting for that. This doesn't diminish from Duncan's accomplishments, but it does it put things into perspective when you compare the two players or players of a similar caliber.