How Do LeStans Explain This...

[1987_Lakers]

luka has lead the greatest offensive rating of all time...so he's better than Jordan? at only 20 years of age?

[dankok8]

Still crickets in this thread with regards to the OP... How did MJ lead a guy averaging 20/7/6 on league average efficiency and another guy averaging 12/8/2 to a GOAT-level offense? It's not hard to answer. You guys can do it...

[Charlie Sheen]

It's also worth noting that the list is significantly skewed towards the last five seasons which has eight teams in the top 20 and comprises the most offensive era in league history. And yet still the highest ORtg for a Lebron team is the 2016-2017 Cavs at #37.

You draw the conclusion that ORtg is skewed towards the last 5 seasons because you don't know what you're looking at. It is a measure of efficiency not some indictment of Lebron.

Where do Shaq's teams rank? Care to make any firm conclusions based on that data?

[dankok8]

You draw the conclusion that ORtg is skewed towards the last 5 seasons because you don't know what you're looking at. It is a measure of efficiency not some indictment of Lebron.

Where do Shaq's teams rank? Care to make any firm conclusions based on that data?

It's not a conclusion. It is literally what the league numbers say.

[Gus Hemmingway]

PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

1986 McHale.... 24.9
1986 Bird....'...... 25.1

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone that could outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg)..

Jordan infact invented the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

Can you post the same for 2012, 2013 LeBron?

[3ball]

Can you post the same for 2012, 2013 LeBron?

Wade already outscored Lebron in 2011, so Lebron had a teammate capable of outscoring him - it doesn't matter that it didn't happen every year

Only Jordan had a "pippen" (someone that scored 10-30 less in every series or playoffs)

[Charlie Sheen]

It's not a conclusion. It is literally what the league numbers say.

You started with your conclusion... "LeStans" is in your thread title for heaven's sake. Then you found a piece of evidence to fit your conclusion. It's supposed to work the other way around.

In my previous post, I overlooked 84-95 Orlando being shaq's lone appearance on the list at #10. You don't find it noteworthy that Horace Grant was also on that team? He was converting shots at a 57% clip in that bulls and magic season. Horace has a huge impact on what the ORtg is going to look like for a team. Not coincidentally, Penny shot the highest percentage of his career in 94-95. You don't know what the league numbers say because you don't understand what the stat you're citing is a measure of.

[3ball]

Wade already outscored Lebron in 2011, so Lebron had a teammate capable of outscoring him - it doesn't matter that it didn't happen every year

Only Jordan had a "pippen" (someone that scored 10-30 less in every series or playoffs)

Gussy? You breathin bud?

Ultimately, pippen's prime stats were achievable by anyone, including bums like JR Smith (15' ECF), Robert Horry (94' Finals), or Larry Hughes (05').

That's the caliber that Jordan won 6 rings with, which is why he's goat

[tpols]

Lebron teaming up with Wade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, and Love offensively would be like MJ getting to play with Clyde, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Shawn Kemp, and Thunder Dan. It would be a competitive travesty so bad, MJ would probably quit for baseball again because it would be just too easy. He made it look easy with just Pippen (Paul George). Imagine what it would look like with that cast team hopping everywhere.

[dankok8]

You started with your conclusion... "LeStans" is in your thread title for heaven's sake. Then you found a piece of evidence to fit your conclusion. It's supposed to work the other way around.

In my previous post, I overlooked 84-95 Orlando being shaq's lone appearance on the list at #10. You don't find it noteworthy that Horace Grant was also on that team? He was converting shots at a 57% clip in that bulls and magic season. Horace has a huge impact on what the ORtg is going to look like for a team. Not coincidentally, Penny shot the highest percentage of his career in 94-95. You don't know what the league numbers say because you don't understand what the stat you're citing is a measure of.

I don't understand? Says the guy who's talking like Horace Grant averaging 10 shots a game is impacting team ORtg in a major way.

[dankok8]

Lebron teaming up with Wade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, and Love offensively would be like MJ getting to play with Clyde, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Shawn Kemp, and Thunder Dan. It would be a competitive travesty so bad, MJ would probably quit for baseball again because it would be just too easy. He made it look easy with just Pippen (Paul George). Imagine what it would look like with that cast team hopping everywhere.

K. Love is much better than Thunder Dan but good point.

[tpols]

K. Love is much better than Thunder Dan but good point.

I was throwing them a bone. Not trying to exaggerate.

[Axe]

Lebron teaming up with Wade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, and Love offensively would be like MJ getting to play with Clyde, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Shawn Kemp, and Thunder Dan. It would be a competitive travesty so bad, MJ would probably quit for baseball again because it would be just too easy. He made it look easy with just Pippen (Paul George). Imagine what it would look like with that cast team hopping everywhere.

Mj quit for baseball because the competition was so weak and that the league called on him for his gambling hobby

[Mr. Woke]

What matters is winning a championship, not having a #1 ranked offense.

Dallas was eliminated in round 1 by the Clippers last season.

#1 ranked offense my ass.

[Charlie Sheen]

I don't understand? Says the guy who's talking like Horace Grant averaging 10 shots a game is impacting team ORtg in a major way.

So you're just going to double down with stubbornness and sarcasm?


When the difference between the #1 and #100 team is 4.8, of course the third, fourth, fifth scorers are going to be the difference makers. That should be obvious. Every team on that list of 100 has a number one, and sometimes number 2 scorer on an all time efficient season.

The irony of this thread is your Ortgs show that Lebron has never had teammates anywhere as good at putting the ball in the basket as Jordan had.

ORtg is a boxscore stat. Pretty useless to draw conclusions from. My opinion. Don't quote me on this, but the jist of that formula is a measurement of true shooting across an entire team. The reason it doesn't even closely mirror efg when sorted is because free throws and offensive rebounding are also accounted for when calculating ORtg.

There was definitely a nicer way of explaining this than telling you that you don't understand. I apologize for that.