Stephen A.Smith: I would want Michael Jordan every day' over LeBron

[HoopsNY]

Stopped reading this sh!t right here, as both of these took place in the 1996 NBA finals.

No they didn't. Did you watch that series?

Kemp went 23/10/2 on 55% with an 18.9 GmSc.

Jordan went 27/5/4 on 42% with an 18.5 GmSc.

One player was guarded by Gary Payton the majority of the time, while the other was guarded by Luc Longley the majority of the time. Phil Jackson switched Longley onto Kemp after game 1.

In addition, Jordan was more impactful defensively. If you watched that series, you knew that Ron Harper went down with an injury and Phil put MJ to guard GP. So who was Kemp guarding while MJ guarded GP?

MJ was never outplayed by anyone. Period.

So kindly explain how MJ was "outplayed" by another player in that series.

[1987_Lakers]

Jordan was never outplayed by a teammate, opponent, was the more elite defender and scorer.

I mean just look at the '87-'88 stretch where they matched up 10 times in the season and once in the playoffs. Both were healthy and MVP caliber players so no excuses for either player...


11/14/86
Bird - 37/10/5 (13/25 shooting)
Jordan - 48/5/1 (17/33 shooting)

Celtics win, I'd say it's a wash though.

01/02/87
Bird - 37/8/9 (61.1%)
Jordan - 34/8/3 (41.9%)

Celtics win, Bird easily wins the matchup. Highlights of the game here:

. As you can see Jordan made a pitiful attempt at guarding him.

27/01/87
Bird - 24/14/3 (39%)
Jordan - 30/6/4 (38%)

Celtics win. Wash.

28/01/87
Bird - 26/5/9 (65%)
Jordan - 27/4/4 (48%)
Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

27/03/87
Bird - 41/7/7 (58.6%)
Jordan - 22/7/7 (39.1%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

17/04/87
Bird - 38/8/7 (59%)
Jordan - 17/4/8 (33%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

12/01/88
Bird - 38/9/8 (58%)
Jordan - 42/4/6 (53%)

Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

18/03/88
Bird - 19/10/6
Jordan - 50/9/5

Bulls win. Jordan finally wins head to head.

20/03/88
Bird - 33/7/8 (67%)
Jordan - 26/4/7 (56%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup. Highlights:


21/04/88
Bird - 44/10/3 (65.5%)
Jordan - 39/3/8 (51.5%)



Celtics win. Bird wins matchup *yawn*


Bird's record in this stretch? 9-1 while outperforming him in nearly every game. What makes this worse? Bird made Jordan look like a child when Jordan tried to guard him. Meanwhile the possessions I saw Bird guard Jordan, he defended him quite well (definitly wasn't gambling for steals to leave him open in the post).

Moreover, Jordan is 0-6 in the playoffs including this disaster in '87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y (Jordan makes 0 shots in the 4th quarter...Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left...but Bird showed up when it mattered while Jordan was no where to be seen)

[3ball]

Jordan's 8 seeds did better against bird than lebron's high seeds against KD in 17' and 18'

Ultimately, Jordan's 8 seeds from 86' and 87' equal lebron's 9 seeds from 04' and 05'.. so people are criticizing Jordan for losing to the goat Warriors with lebron's 04/05 teams.

[Axe]

I mean just look at the '87-'88 stretch where they matched up 10 times in the season and once in the playoffs. Both were healthy and MVP caliber players so no excuses for either player...


11/14/86
Bird - 37/10/5 (13/25 shooting)
Jordan - 48/5/1 (17/33 shooting)

Celtics win, I'd say it's a wash though.

01/02/87
Bird - 37/8/9 (61.1%)
Jordan - 34/8/3 (41.9%)

Celtics win, Bird easily wins the matchup. Highlights of the game here:

. As you can see Jordan made a pitiful attempt at guarding him.

27/01/87
Bird - 24/14/3 (39%)
Jordan - 30/6/4 (38%)

Celtics win. Wash.

28/01/87
Bird - 26/5/9 (65%)
Jordan - 27/4/4 (48%)
Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

27/03/87
Bird - 41/7/7 (58.6%)
Jordan - 22/7/7 (39.1%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

17/04/87
Bird - 38/8/7 (59%)
Jordan - 17/4/8 (33%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

12/01/88
Bird - 38/9/8 (58%)
Jordan - 42/4/6 (53%)

Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

18/03/88
Bird - 19/10/6
Jordan - 50/9/5

Bulls win. Jordan finally wins head to head.

20/03/88
Bird - 33/7/8 (67%)
Jordan - 26/4/7 (56%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup. Highlights:


21/04/88
Bird - 44/10/3 (65.5%)
Jordan - 39/3/8 (51.5%)



Celtics win. Bird wins matchup *yawn*


Bird's record in this stretch? 9-1 while outperforming him in nearly every game. What makes this worse? Bird made Jordan look like a child when Jordan tried to guard him. Meanwhile the possessions I saw Bird guard Jordan, he defended him quite well (definitly wasn't gambling for steals to leave him open in the post).

Moreover, Jordan is 0-6 in the playoffs including this disaster in '87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y (Jordan makes 0 shots in the 4th quarter...Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left...but Bird showed up when it mattered while Jordan was no where to be seen)

*Quotes a poster that was talking about baldan having no weaknesses during his prime

*Makes a post about him vs. larry bird h2h within 3 years prior the bulls got pippen to make baldan look miserable

Wow what a brilliant shtick lmao

[dankok8]

No they didn't. Did you watch that series?

Kemp went 23/10/2 on 55% with an 18.9 GmSc.

Jordan went 27/5/4 on 42% with an 18.5 GmSc.

One player was guarded by Gary Payton the majority of the time, while the other was guarded by Luc Longley the majority of the time. Phil Jackson switched Longley onto Kemp after game 1.

In addition, Jordan was more impactful defensively. If you watched that series, you knew that Ron Harper went down with an injury and Phil put MJ to guard GP. So who was Kemp guarding while MJ guarded GP?

MJ was never outplayed by anyone. Period.

So kindly explain how MJ was "outplayed" by another player in that series.

Using the 1996 Finals against Jordan is the stupidest argument ever. Of course he didn't get outplayed.

Through the first three games when the Bulls took a 3-0 lead Jordan averaged 31/5/5 on 59 %TS... He won the Finals MVP based on those performances and his struggles in the last three games of that series weren't enough to overturn that. A lot of teenagers on here also can't comprehend that those Sonics played REAL DEFENSE... get in your face, physical, constantly trash-talking, using dirty tactics etc. League average TS% and low pace show pretty clearly that it was a much more defensive era. Payton switched full time on MJ in Game 4 and was able to bother him. Peeps on here are ignorant about how good GP was on D.

The only thing these jokers have is cherrypicking stats that suit them including 1987_Lakers pulling up numbers from the 86-87 and 87-88 regular seasons. As if peak Bird outplaying MJ in some regular season games means squat especially when they didn't guard each other. MJ in 6 playoff losses against Bird's Celtics put up almost 40/7/6 on 56 %TS and some of those games were close losses. Bird definitely didn't outplay him there. And he conveniently ignores rookie Jordan outproducing Bird in 84-85. From now on if you want to post Bird vs. Jordan H2H stats post all of their career meetings.

Jordan may get ridiculously hyped by mythologists who call him untouchable (he was human after all...) but in their primes the vast majority of people would take MJ over Lebron as the better basketball player. Who's the GOAT i.e. more accomplished is up for debate. Kareem, Russell and Lebron both have a case over Jordan there but few will claim that those guys were better basketball players.

Jordan won more than Lebron as the best player on this team and never got outplayed in the playoffs.

[RRR3]

I agree that BOTH are sitting at the same table.

Mike had a better peak/prime. Bron has better longevity.

A reasonable take which means both LeBron and Jordan stans will get mad at you

[RRR3]

*Quotes a poster that was talking about baldan having no weaknesses during his prime

*Makes a post about him vs. larry bird h2h within 3 years prior the bulls got pippen to make baldan look miserable

Wow what a brilliant shtick lmao

He just refuted a dumb statement

[HoopsNY]

He just refuted a dumb statement

How is it dumb? Jordan never got outplayed in the playoffs. Prove me otherwise. Using a bunch of regular season statistics to disprove a claim about the playoffs doesn't prove anything. Yet I'm the one making "dumb" statements? Give me a break.

Using the 1996 Finals against Jordan is the stupidest argument ever. Of course he didn't get outplayed.

Through the first three games when the Bulls took a 3-0 lead Jordan averaged 31/5/5 on 59 %TS... He won the Finals MVP based on those performances and his struggles in the last three games of that series weren't enough to overturn that. A lot of teenagers on here also can't comprehend that those Sonics played REAL DEFENSE... get in your face, physical, constantly trash-talking, using dirty tactics etc. League average TS% and low pace show pretty clearly that it was a much more defensive era. Payton switched full time on MJ in Game 4 and was able to bother him. Peeps on here are ignorant about how good GP was on D.

The only thing these jokers have is cherrypicking stats that suit them including 1987_Lakers pulling up numbers from the 86-87 and 87-88 regular seasons. As if peak Bird outplaying MJ in some regular season games means squat especially when they didn't guard each other. MJ in 6 playoff losses against Bird's Celtics put up almost 40/7/6 on 56 %TS and some of those games were close losses. Bird definitely didn't outplay him there. And he conveniently ignores rookie Jordan outproducing Bird in 84-85. From now on if you want to post Bird vs. Jordan H2H stats post all of their career meetings.

Jordan may get ridiculously hyped by mythologists who call him untouchable (he was human after all...) but in their primes the vast majority of people would take MJ over Lebron as the better basketball player. Who's the GOAT i.e. more accomplished is up for debate. Kareem, Russell and Lebron both have a case over Jordan there but few will claim that those guys were better basketball players.

Jordan won more than Lebron as the best player on this team and never got outplayed in the playoffs.

I doubt he watched that series. If he did he would know who guarded MJ for half the series and the fact that Kemp was guarded by Longley for 5/6 games. In addition, Kemp had no real defensive assignment, unless he thinks Rodman was some offensive juggernaut. Not to mention that MJ had to expend energy and limit GP in the games Harper was injured. These guys don't account for any of that.

The problem with Bran stans is that they've been largely raised in an era where defense has declined, so defensive arguments are automatically thrown out of the window and given little regard.

When you mention how well MJ played or consider who defended him, such as the Defensive Player of the Year, Gary Payton, the numbers start to make a bit more sense.

It's kind of like the 2014 finals where Bran stans don't want to admit that Kawhi outplayed LeBron for the series. They will never admit that games 3-4-5 were all about Kawhi both offensively and defensively.

They also won't account for how well Kawhi guarded LeBron during those games. To them, you just look at a box score and that's it.

[warriorfan]

Let me know when Michael Jordan joins with the 2nd and 4th highest PER and gets outscored by Jason Terry in the Finals.

[HoopsNY]

A reasonable take which means both LeBron and Jordan stans will get mad at you

You can't argue against either. MJ clearly had the better peak whereas LeBron clearly has the greatest longevity ever.

[Jasper]

the opinion of a professional troll is supposed to hold weight? literally a sports "journalist" who forms his opinion based on what his tv producers tell him for the day

fake post news

[Jasper]

Jordan was never outplayed by a teammate, opponent, was the more elite defender and scorer. He had no weaknesses in his game and his clutch stats blow LeBron out of the water.

LeBron is a better passer and rebounder, though MJ's passing is severely underrated. LeBron is also the more versatile defender, which depending upon the situation, you would want LeBron over MJ.

No one's peak touches MJ, though. And his clutch stats really show that when you consider his clutch states from 1997 and 1998. In addition, he gave up 2 years of his peak where he would have easily added 5,200 points, 1,200 rebounds, and 1,000 assists to his totals, in addition to at least one more title, FMVP, and MVP, 2 All-NBA 1st team selections, 2 All-Defensive 1st Team selections, and 2 All-Star MVPs.

LeBron stans are afraid of that thought, especially if MJ 8-peats.

ahh we don't want to forget that MJ played in college ball while Bron out of high school MJ could of maybe had 10 peats.

[r0drig0lac]

2018 LeBron

2009 LeBron

2020 LeBron

2017 LeBron


All had higher PERs than MJ

this stat is based on comparisons with players from the same era (or in the same season to be more exact), honestly, i really don't see how to compare these stats in different years and eras show something.

[bullettooth]

Stephen A is actually a way smarter guy than just about anyone on this forum regardless if you agree with him or not.

Low bar considering most of the forum is just a LeBron dick rider with multiple accounts.

[3ball]

Lebron-ball isn't a #1 offense (17-year sample), so his Bulls wouldn't be as good as Jordan's were (juggernaut #1 offenses)

Carry on in ignorance