Examining the Wilt-West-Baylor Lakers and why were they were not able to win more

[coastalmarker99]

Thread examining the Wilt-West-Baylor Lakers.

A main question: Did The Lakers underperform?

Short answer: No.

4 of 5 yrs, they won West Conf & made Finals plus winning a ring in 1972.

The only year Lakers missed Finals, 1971, both Baylor & West missed entire playoffs with injuries.

Lakers, 1969-73:

10-4 PO series record

Lost in POs to:
Celtics dynasty
Kareem-Oscar Bucks (but also beat Bucks twice in POs)
Outstanding Knicks team (twice) (also beat Knicks once)

Context:
Many assume Wilt-West-Baylor played 5 yrs together.
In fact, they played ONE full year together, 1969!

In 1970, Wilt missed most of RS w/ knee injury. But he came back for POs.

W-W-B together for 2 POs:
Went to game 7 of Finals each yr
Is that really underperforming?

Wilt, West, and Baylor are all-time greats.

But when Wilt joined Lakers in 1968-69, their ages were:
34 Wilt
32 Baylor
30 West

This was in an era when 30 was old for NBA players.

West was still in his very long prime.

Wilt was also still very good.
But he scored a lot less w/ Lakers.
He averaged 14.5 P/G w/ Lakers, after averaging 40 P/G his first 7 yrs.
He was still a great rebounder and very good defender & passer.
But 1970 knee injury hurt mobility.

Baylor, however, was another story.

1959-63 (5 yrs):
Averaged 32.0, 16.7, 4.4
.195 WS/48
26.1 PER

But in 1963 & again in 1965, he hurt his knee.

1964-72 (9 yrs):
24.2, 11.4, 4.2
.112 WS/48
20.2 PER

From historic superstar level (1960-63) to *just* All-NBA level (1964-after).

In 1969 & 1970, Lakers really had Big 3 only

After 1968, they lost two quality guards:

Archie Clark
In 1968, he led team in MP & averaged 19.9.
He later averaged 25.2 w/ Bullets.
But was traded for Wilt

Gail Goodrich
Taken by Suns in expansion draft.
(Later returned to LA.)

Mel Counts, a lanky 7-footer, was a decent scorer & rebounder who played PF and back-up center.

The rest of the Laker team in 1969 & 1970 was trash.


1968-69

Lakers won 55.

But other teams were as good or better:
57 W Bullets
55 W 76ers
54 W Knicks

In SRS, which measures point differential and strength of schedule, Lakers were behind these three and also the Russell-Havlicek Celtics.

Lakers were 5th in SRS. Not dominant.
1969 Western Conference POs:

Lakers:
Beat Warriors, 4-2
Beat Hawks, 4-1


1969 Finals:
Lakers lost to Celtics 4-3.

Lakers lost game 7 by 2 at home. Wilt (7-8, 18 P, 27 R and 10 Blocks) left game & Coach Van Beda Kolff refused to put him back in.

FMVP West great: 38, 5, 7
Wilt & Baylor mediocre

For Celtics:
Havlicek awesome: 28, 11, 4
Jones good
Russell mediocre

1970 Lakers RS was injury-plagued:
Wilt missed 70 games
Baylor missed 28

West was MVP-level and led NBA in P/G

46-26, 2nd place in Western Conf

POs:
Lakers beat Suns, 4-3
Hawks had best West record and homecourt. But Lakers swept Hawks 4-0.

1970 Finals:
Lakers lost to Knicks 4-3.

This Knicks team is over publicized. But still a truly great team.
Best record in NBA. Won 19 straight (a then-record).
Best SRS by far that yr & 22nd best SRS ever!

Reed won MVP and Frazier was just as valuable.
Excellent supporting cast


1970s Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks

First 4 games (2-2):
Reed scored well but didn't outplay Wilt overall:
WR: 32, 15, 4, .505 TS
WC: 25, 19, 5, .524 TS

1970 Finals:

Reed severely injured his knee in game 4.
After game 4, Reed managed only 11 P, 3 R, 2 A in 35 MP.
Wilt dominated him & ended up w/ 106 more rebounds in the series.
But Reed's gritty performance was inspiring.

Game 7:
Frazier had 36, 7, 19 & Knicks win easily.


1971 Laker RS:

Baylor's career was basically over.
He played only 2 games in 1971 & 9 in 1972.

W/o Baylor, Lakers won only 48, tied for 3rd in Western Conf.

Lakers did add two quality players: PF Happy Hairston and SG Gail Goodrich.

But West was injured late and missed POs.

1971 POs:

W/o West & Baylor, Lakers beat 51-W Bulls team, 4-3, winning game 7 in Chicago.

Lakers then played the Bucks, one of best team ever.
Buck were 66-16 with the highest SRS in history!
Kareem was MVP and led NBA in scoring.
Kareem had Oscar & a good supporting cast.

1971 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks

Old Man Wilt played well against Young Kareem:
WC: 49%, 22.0, 18.8, 2.0
KAJ: 48%, 25.0, 17.2, 4.2

But without West & Baylor (injuries), Lakers were no match for one of the greatest teams ever.

Bucks, who ended up 12-2 in POs, beat Lakers 4-1.

1972 RS

Baylor officially retired in early November 1971.

Lakers then won 33 straight (still a record) and were 69-13, a record at the time.

Why did Lakers improve 21 games (48 W-69 W), 1971 to 1972?

Short answer: I don't know.

West & Wilt played about the same.

Lakers had new coach, Bill Sharman.
D improved 4.5P/100 poss
Goodrich improved: 17.5 to 25.2, and doubled WS & WS/48.
Hairston & McMillian a little better.

1972 POs:

Like in RS, Lakers were a juggernaut in POs:
12-3 in POs
81-16 RS +POs

First round: Lakers Swept a very good, 57-W Bulls team, 4-0.




1972 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks

1972 Lakers had 3rd highest SRS ever.
But 1972 Bucks had 5th highest ever!!
Bucks as good as in 1971 & Kareem better.

Weird series.
Laker scored 72 in game 1 & then 135 in game 2!
Bucks won 2 games by total of 47.
Lakers won 4 by 34, inc. by 1, 4 & 4.


1972 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks

This series was a reverse of the old Wilt-Russell series.
But this time, Wilt (in the Russell role) was on the winning team despite being outplayed by Kareem (in the old Wilt role).

WC: 10.8, 19.3, 3.3
KAJ: 33.7, 17.5, 4.8

Lakers beat Bucks, 4-2.

1972 Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks

Knicks won game 1 by 22: then Lakers won 4 straight.

Wilt was FMVP: 60%, 19, 23, 3
Goodrich had 25.6 on 47%
West shot horribly: 32.5%, but averaged 8.8 AST

For Knicks, Reed was injured. But replacement Lucas played well, as did Frazier & Bradley

1973 RS

1973 Lakers just a little worse than 1972.
60 W, which tied Bucks for best in West and 2nd best overall.
Lakers had best SRS in NBA.
1973 POs:

Lakers once again had to play a good 51-W Bulls team known for their tough D.
Lakers beat Bulls, 4-3.

Nate Thurmond and Warriors had upset Kareem's Bucks in first round.
Lakers easily beat Warriors, 4-1 (average point differential was 14.2 in series)
1973 Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks

A re-match of 1970 & 1972 Finals.

Knicks won, 4-1.
But series was closer: Knicks won games by 3, 4 & 4.
Wilt disappeared on offense, averaging only 8.4 FGA/G & 11.6 P/G.
West & Goodrich played okay.
But McMillian took 21 FGA/G and shot only .394


You often hear about 1969-73 Lakers (especially Wilt) "choking," able to "only" win one ring. 1969 and 1970 Finals losses have been discussed over and over.

In fact, Lakers lost only ONCE to a team w/ a lower SRS.

1969: Celtics had higher SRS.
1970: Knicks had MUCH higher SRS (22 best ever) and 14-win better record.
1971: Bucks had MUCH higher SRR (best ever) and 18-win better record.
1973: Knicks did have worse SRS & 3 fewer wins.

PO series that don't fit "choker" narrative:

1970 came back from 3 1 deficit against the Suns
1970: Swept Hawks even though Hawks had better record
1971: Lakers beat Bulls even though Bulls had better record
1972: Swept 57-win Bulls
1972: Beat Bucks (5th best SRS ever)
1973: Lost to Knicks, who had also beaten 68 W Celtics

[SouBeachTalents]

Could've been summed up in 2 words: Wilt choked

[coastalmarker99]

Could've been summed up in 2 words: Wilt choked

He only choked in the 1969 finals and also anyone blaming him for the 1970 finals loss is an idiot.


As Wilt had suffered a career-threatening knee injury that season and had returned to play when he shouldn't have done so in the first place as he had lost all of his mobility and could barely move out there on the court.


And despite all of that, he was still the Lakers best player throughout that 18 game playoff run on one good knee so I think it is very unfair to blame Wilt for the 1970 finals loss as without him returning from his injury ahead of time the Lakers would have not gotten there in the first place

[FireDavidKahn]

Because they essentially ran into prime Bill Russell's Celtics every year...

[EllEffEll]

Could've been summed up in 2 words: Wilt choked

My two words would be: Bill Russell

Two more: Willis Reed

And, the Lakers really only had one season of semi-prime Baylor, West and Wilt. Baylor started having knee problems several years before Wilt got here.

They didn't get the job done before Wilt arrived. And Wilt was already declining. Wilt was the third leading scorer (at 20.5 PPG) on the Lakers in the 68/69 season despite averaging over 45 minutes per game. He did up his scoring average the next season, but went back down the season after that. At that point he was no longer relying on the freakish athleticism that he possessed when younger and had to resort to both brute force and finesse (finger-roll) as he physically declined. By the time the Lakers rattled off 33 straight wins, Wilt was the 4th leading scorer on the team at 14.5 PPG.

They had a small window to make it happen, and didn't get the job done. Credit to the Celtics (I still smell fecal matter every time I express that) and the Knicks for seeing it through to the end.

[coastalmarker99]

My two words would be: Bill Russell

Two more: Willis Reed

And, the Lakers really only had one season of semi-prime Baylor, West and Wilt. Baylor started having knee problems several years before Wilt got here.

They didn't get the job done before Wilt arrived. And Wilt was already declining. Wilt was the third leading scorer (at 20.5 PPG) on the Lakers in the 68/69 season despite averaging over 45 minutes per game. He did up his scoring average the next season, but went back down the season after that. At that point he was no longer relying on the freakish athleticism that he possessed when younger and had to resort to both brute force and finesse (finger-roll) as he physically declined. By the time the Lakers rattled off 33 straight wins, Wilt was the 4th leading scorer on the team at 14.5 PPG.

They had a small window to make it happen, and didn't get the job done. Credit to the Celtics (I still smell fecal matter every time I express that) and the Knicks for seeing it through to the end.

The Lakers window to become a dynasty from 1970 to 1973 died the day Wilt suffered his knee injury as he was never the same player he was once was after that injury offensively.











Wilt to start the 1970 season was given full control of the offence unlike 1969 where he was the third wheel on offence and as a result, the Lakers and Wilt were on fire to start the 1970 season they were 6 and 3 and Wilt was averaging 35 points on 57 percent shooting before he then got hurt against the Suns and missed the rest of the season afterwards.





If Wilt stays healthy that season I seriously believe that he was going to win the regular season Mvp and plus the Lakers would have won the title over New york in 6 or 5 games with Wilt being the finals Mvp.







And with Goodrich returning in the season afterwards the Lakers with a fully healthy Wilt that still had his mobility and offensive game plus West still being as elite as he was those Laker teams in my eyes would have dominated and won at least 2 or 3 titles together you have to think.