Bird vs. Magic in Playoffs individual advanced stats in POs and H2H in 3 Finals.

[coastalmarker99]

Bird vs. Magic: INDIVIDUAL stats in PLAYOFFS

Bad news for Bird's fans:

WS/48:
Magic: 12 of top 15. Ave 9.5.
Bird: 10 of LOWEST 11. Ave 17.3.

BPM:
Magic: 10 of top 14
Bird: Top 2 (1984 & 86). But 8 of lowest 11

PER:
Magic: 10 of top 12
Bird: Highest (1984). But 10 of lowest 13




Bird vs. Magic: INDIVIDUAL stats in PLAYOFFS

Bird:
1984 & 1986 were clearly his best POs.
Won FMVP & ring both years.
Big gap after those years.
1981 3rd best PO: 3rd ring.
Along with w/ 1988, his next best POs were 1985 & 1987: Made Finals both years.



In playoffs, Magic was more frequently consistently excellent than Bird was.

.200 and over WS/48 in POs:
7x Magic
2x Bird

Over .155 WS/48 in POs:
12x Magic
3x Bird

.155 & UNDER:
1x Magic
9x Bird



Bird vs. Magic: H2H in FINALS:

1984: Bird outplayed Magic. Celtics won.
23.7 LB's Game Score
20.4 MJ

1985: Magic slightly outplayed Bird. Lakers won.
20.9 MJ GS
19.7 LB

1987: Magic clearly outplayed Bird. Lakers won.
28.3 MJ
19.6 LB

Magic 3 of top 4:
Game Score
ORtg
DRtg
TS%


Bird vs. Magic: TEAMMATES in POs

Pretty even.

WS/48
Magic's mates: Top 2, 8 of top 12. Ave 12.5.
Bird's: 4 of top 6. Ave 13.5.

7 of top 9 made Final (5 rings).
Lowest 7: No Finals

VORP:
Bird's 7 of top 11.
Magic's 8 of top 15

13 of top 18 Finals (8 rings)
Lowest 7: No Finals


Bird vs. Magic in POs: Summation

Bird great 1984 & 86. Best along w/ Magic's 1986 & 87.
Overall, Magic clearly > Bird.

Magic > Bird 2 of 3 H2H Finals.

Teammates were pretty much even.


Bird vs. Magic in POs

Any blame?

Bird:
1980 & 1982:
Each PO, Bird's teammates had a very high WS/48 of .132.
But both teams lost ECF.
For all other GOATs: .132 & above = Final & usually a ring.

Bird under-performed in 1980 PO (.136 WS/48) & 1982 PO (.154 WS/48).



Bird vs. Magic in POs

Any blame?

Magic:
1981:
Magic under-performed & Lakers upset in 1st Rd.

1986: Lakers upset.
But Magic was great! Highest PO WS/48 (.267) of career! (Higher than any Bird WS/48, too.)

1990: Lakers upset.
But Magic was great, .222 WS/48.

Bird vs. Magic in PLAYOFFS: Summation

I personally like both of these players and think they're both among the best ever.

I was genuinely surprised that Magic > Bird by a clear margin.

Magic's superior offensive efficiency is the difference, I think.


Biggest PO Magic > Bird in offensive efficiency is shooting.

rTS%:

Bird's PO rTS%:
2x well above average (1984 & 86)
2x a little above ave
4x a little below
4x well below ave

Magic's
1x well below ave (1981: 3 games total)
12x well above

rTS%: Bird & Magic
Magic 11 of top 13

[Stephonit]

Bird played against tougher opponents in the East and his team was more beat up by the time the finals came around whereas the Lakers coasted in comparison.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

I'm trying to figure out why so many people have Magic in their top 5 but not Bird.Other than passing the ball what else is Magic better at?

[Round Mound]

I'm trying to figure out why so many people have Magic in their top 5 but not Bird.Other than passing the ball what else is Magic better at?

Ballhandling, Speed and can play more positions. Both Bird and Magic had great great! fundamentals and where clutch but Bird was a better shooter, rebounder and defender though.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Ballhandling, Speed and can play more positions. Both Bird and Magic had great great! fundamentals and where clutch but Bird was a better shooter, rebounder and defender though.

So overall Bird > Magic

I did go and watch the full games of the 80 finals,Kareem was their go to scorer up until he got hurt.Magic went in as center & had a great performance in game 6 with 42 points,15 rebounds and 7 assists in his rookie season.I'm currently in the process of watching 1981 finals,Bird grabbed 21 rebounds in the first game against the Rockets.One of the shots he missed during the game he managed to rebound it in midair and made the shot.

[tpols]

Bird played against tougher opponents in the East and his team was more beat up by the time the finals came around whereas the Lakers coasted in comparison.

This. Also Bird didn't get to play with prime Kareem right off the bat and for his whole prime. He joined a 20 win team and turned water into wine.

[mr4speed]

Bird vs. Magic: INDIVIDUAL stats in PLAYOFFS

Bad news for Bird's fans:

WS/48:
Magic: 12 of top 15. Ave 9.5.
Bird: 10 of LOWEST 11. Ave 17.3.

BPM:
Magic: 10 of top 14
Bird: Top 2 (1984 & 86). But 8 of lowest 11

PER:
Magic: 10 of top 12
Bird: Highest (1984). But 10 of lowest 13




Bird vs. Magic: INDIVIDUAL stats in PLAYOFFS

Bird:
1984 & 1986 were clearly his best POs.
Won FMVP & ring both years.
Big gap after those years.
1981 3rd best PO: 3rd ring.
Along with w/ 1988, his next best POs were 1985 & 1987: Made Finals both years.



In playoffs, Magic was more frequently consistently excellent than Bird was.

.200 and over WS/48 in POs:
7x Magic
2x Bird

Over .155 WS/48 in POs:
12x Magic
3x Bird

.155 & UNDER:
1x Magic
9x Bird



Bird vs. Magic: H2H in FINALS:

1984: Bird outplayed Magic. Celtics won.
23.7 LB's Game Score
20.4 MJ

1985: Magic slightly outplayed Bird. Lakers won.
20.9 MJ GS
19.7 LB

1987: Magic clearly outplayed Bird. Lakers won.
28.3 MJ
19.6 LB

Magic 3 of top 4:
Game Score
ORtg
DRtg
TS%


Bird vs. Magic: TEAMMATES in POs

Pretty even.

WS/48
Magic's mates: Top 2, 8 of top 12. Ave 12.5.
Bird's: 4 of top 6. Ave 13.5.

7 of top 9 made Final (5 rings).
Lowest 7: No Finals

VORP:
Bird's 7 of top 11.
Magic's 8 of top 15

13 of top 18 Finals (8 rings)
Lowest 7: No Finals


Bird vs. Magic in POs: Summation

Bird great 1984 & 86. Best along w/ Magic's 1986 & 87.
Overall, Magic clearly > Bird.

Magic > Bird 2 of 3 H2H Finals.

Teammates were pretty much even.


Bird vs. Magic in POs

Any blame?

Bird:
1980 & 1982:
Each PO, Bird's teammates had a very high WS/48 of .132.
But both teams lost ECF.
For all other GOATs: .132 & above = Final & usually a ring.

Bird under-performed in 1980 PO (.136 WS/48) & 1982 PO (.154 WS/48).



Bird vs. Magic in POs

Any blame?

Magic:
1981:
Magic under-performed & Lakers upset in 1st Rd.

1986: Lakers upset.
But Magic was great! Highest PO WS/48 (.267) of career! (Higher than any Bird WS/48, too.)

1990: Lakers upset.
But Magic was great, .222 WS/48.

Bird vs. Magic in PLAYOFFS: Summation

I personally like both of these players and think they're both among the best ever.

I was genuinely surprised that Magic > Bird by a clear margin.

Magic's superior offensive efficiency is the difference, I think.


Biggest PO Magic > Bird in offensive efficiency is shooting.

rTS%:

Bird's PO rTS%:
2x well above average (1984 & 86)
2x a little above ave
4x a little below
4x well below ave

Magic's
1x well below ave (1981: 3 games total)
12x well above

rTS%: Bird & Magic
Magic 11 of top 13

I looked into the H2H a long time ago and here was my take on the Finals for 84, 85 and 87
I used the ppg + rpg, + apg, + stealspg + blkpergame and took this # - the TO per game. I also looked at the FG% and listed after is the + or - compared to the season %. Here is what I had.
1984 Bird was 27.4 + 14.0 + 3.6 + 2.1 + 1.1 = 48.2 - 3.75 = 44.63 on 48.4% drop of .8%
1984Magicwas18.0 + 7.7 + 13.6 + 2.0 + .9 = 42.2 - 4.42 = 37.78 on 56.0% drop of .5%

1985 Bird was 23.8 + 8.8 + 5.0 + 1.8 + .7 =40.1 - 2.16 = 37.94 on 44.9% drop of 7.3%
1985Magicwas18.3 + 6.8 + 14.0 + 2.2 + 0 =41.3 - 3.33 = 37.97 on 49.4% drop of 6.7%

1987Bird was 24.2 + 10.0 + 5.5 + 1.2 + 1.2 =42.1 -3.0 = 39.1 on 44.5% drop of 8.0 %
1987Magicwas26.2 + 8.0 + 13.0 + 2.3 + .3 =49.8 - 2.16=47.64on54.1% plus of1.9%

In summary 84 Bird wins FMVP has better performance. In 85 I have as a draw as the 37.94 Bird is almost identical to the 39.97 Magic and the FMVP = Kareem who after his terrible game 1 put up in the next 5 games a per game of 28.4 and 10.2 and 6.0 assists on 61% shooting. In 87 Magic wins FMVP has better performance. So 1 and 1 and a draw is as even as it gets with Kareem in 85 tipping the balance for LA.
As for the post season, LA played in a weaker conference. Dave Heeren's "Basketball Abstract" examined the East vs West - all teams included and found the H2H the East dominated the West every year for all 10 years of the eighties.
I then looked at the other Finals appearances for both Magic and Bird and using the formula above here is the list for each - I threw out the 89 vs Detroit as Magic got injured.
1986 Bird was 43.54
1980 Magic was 39.4
1988 Magic was 39.19
1981 Bird was 37.24
1991 Magic was 35.8
1983 Magic was 35.6
1982 Magic was 33.47
For me, I do not see how Magic can be viewed as a better Finals performer than Bird. The 1980 FMVP was voted for Kareem to win the award after Magic's great game 6 but because he was not present the voters were asked to change their votes so Magic would win the award. With Magic winning 2 FMVP in 9 finals is not better than Bird winning 2 FMVP in 5 finals. The "formula" used above for Kareem in the 1980 Finals = 51.2 = better than any Finals for Bird or Magic! I am not trying to knock Magic but I do believe having Kareem ( and Worthy) and the easier path to the Finals was a big factor in the 9 finals and 5 rings.

[Ben Simmons]

I'm trying to figure out why so many people have Magic in their top 5 but not Bird.Other than passing the ball what else is Magic better at?

His career was better.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

His career was better.

He may have had a better career but that doesn't necessarily mean he was the better individual player.Plus Magic had more help around him.

-Kareem
-Nixon
-Wilkes
-Worthy
-Byron