2020-21 Regular season- The tax team

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2021/...nned-cavaliers

Donovan Mitchell is really in his bag right now. He’s flying around the court, cutting, diving, knocking down shots in rhythm and putting on a show. He led the Jazz with 27 points on 9 of 17 including 5 of 7 from deep. In the last three games (all wins for the Jazz) Mitchell is shooting a combined 54.1% from 3-point range.

now if he'd only play some D

Miye Oni is a lot more athletic than his frame suggests and if he is continually given regular minutes I feel like he could be really impactful defensively for the Jazz and a building piece for the future. I have yet to listen to his rap album so I’ll save judgement on that for later.

Quin has to love you or it doesn't really matter

The Jazz were leading by 31 points with seven minutes left in the game and there were still three Jazz starters on the floor. I don’t have an explanation for that.

COTY. Get used to it. He actually brought them in early for him. Twice this year he has actually!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.slcdunk.com/2021/1/12/22...s-in-cleveland

Due to Joe Ingles’ absence in tonight’s game, Miye Oni found himself getting rotation minutes, finishing the night with 18 minutes played. During his time with the regulars, he impressed fans with his defense, effort, and athleticism. Oni showed off his all-around skillset tonight, putting up a balanced line of six points, two three-pointers, three rebounds, two assists, and three blocks. Maybe his play tonight can lead to more rotation minutes in the future.

don't count on it

After the lead grew to near 30 points, Quin finally rested the starters for the last five minutes of the game. The young guys at the end of the bench showed us plenty of effort, and impressive teamwork. A lot of guys in that position try too hard to get their own, but this squad seems to have strong chemistry. The ball was moving really well, and guys got open shots from that.

Hughes gets his that's for sure. Shaq looks good with the ball in his hands

Donovan Mitchell was the best player on the court tonight. He was just getting to his spots with ease, hitting threes, making plays for teammates, and carrying out his will against the Cavs’ young defense. Don finished with 27 points (9-15 FG, 5-7 3P, 4-4 FT), four assists, and three rebounds. When Donovan is playing his game, not being controlled by the defense, he is a superstar. Over the last three games, he has averaged 29 points per game, and it’s looked easy for him. I think it’s safe to say that his slump is over.

a couple crappy teams out of those 3. Let's not get ahead of ourselves

Bogie

Its still so early in the season. I wouldn’t worry about bogie. Or niang for that matter. Bogie looked confident tonight and didn’t force anything. I think when anyone in this offense does that they play way better. Let the game come to them and the offense will create good looks for them.
Donavan playing under control does so much for this team. We can overcome alot with him playing like this. This team is also good enough to survive some slumps out of guys. In years prior of one our starters struggled we usually struggled as an offense and it cost us games. This team has plenty of guys that can fill in and pick up the slack.
I also really like how unselfish this team plays. No one except maybe rudy seems to mind having a poor production night if the team is playing well. The chemistry is there. If they stay dialed in and play hard the sky is the limit. I was looking forward to the wizards game but more rest is never a bad thing.

Posted by JazzHands2017 on Jan 13, 2021 | 7:31 AM

I worry about Bojan because even if he's hitting shots I'm not sure he's that good.

[Xiao Yao You]

James Hardy, a high-flying forward on the 1976-77 USF Dons team that was ranked No. 1 in the country, died of a heart attack in Long Beach on Dec. 29. He was 64.
– via Steve Kroner @ San Francisco Chronicle



The then-New Orleans Jazz selected Hardy in the first round (11th overall) of the 1978 NBA draft. He spent four seasons with the Jazz — the final three in Utah — and averaged 5.7 points and 5.3 rebounds per game. Hardy later played several seasons in Europe.
– via Steve Kroner @ San Francisco Chronicle

[Xiao Yao You]

https://kslsports.com/450818/what-ha...eans-for-jazz/

The Jazz have struggled to contain Harden in the playoffs in recent years, and will no longer face that struggle.

yet they lost because of crappy offense which they fixed and now have crappy D!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2021/...e-expectations

The Jazz brass are not going to be OK with the Jazz remaining a middling team that exits the playoffs by the end of the second round. That would already be a disappointment and failure if it were to happen again this season.

It sure seems that way. Bring back the same guys and an old problem.

With perimeter defense a weakness, can Mitchell become the defender the Jazz need while also being their top scorer? Can he score efficiently if he’s tasked with defending the opposition’s best wing for the entirety of a game? Can he play at a high level consistently?

can he score efficiently period?

[Xiao Yao You]

https://saltcityhoops.com/is-this-th...on-and-malone/

Is This the Best Jazz Team Since Stockton and Malone?

best team since last year anyway. Hard to say they're better than the teams they had the 3 years before that let alone Deron's teams

The ups: Underdog stories like Sundiata Gaines and the starless but overachieving 42-40 team … winning hardware, including a pair of DPOY and dunk champion trophies … optimism behind the “core four” of Gordon Hayward, Derrick Favors, Alec Burks, and Enes Kanter — and later Trey Burke as a fifth Jazz lottery pick in that era… memorable moments like the Miracle in Miami and Joe Johnson’s playoff buzzer beater … making the Western Conference Finals … draft-day trades for Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell … upset playoff victories over star-studded Thunder and Clipper teams.

core 4 and Burke! Where's Dante?

The downs: Hayward’s awkward 4th of July departure … the resignation of Jerry Sloan and subsequent trade of Deron Williams … the Ty Corbin era … (arguable) lottery misses in Kanter, Burke and Dante Exum… eight years of missed playoffs … hitting the Spurs/Lakers wall in the postseason … hitting the Warriors/Rockets wall in the postseason.

not arguable that they missed on those picks. Corbin teams overachieved. Big Al was certainly a low point

Which begs the question: can this be best Jazz team since the one led by franchise icons Stockton and Malone?

if they defend sure. Not much reason to think they can though

Unless you heavily favor offense, Rudy has the numbers edge. We’re comparing two very different players from slightly different eras, but I’m picking Rudy—not just from a statistical standpoint, but also from a legacy standpoint. Williams was unceremoniously traded in his 6th season while Gobert is entering his 9th season, and under contract for at least four more.

#3 all time

Whether Gobert is the best Jazz player since the statues can be debated; Donovan Mitchell is clearly the most talented number two, with a path to ultimately take the title as the most valuable Jazzman. With respect to Boozer and Hayward, the combination of Gobert and Mitchell is clearly the most talented tandem, post-2003.

It's not arguable. Hayward was better than Mitchell

Moving down the roster, Conley and Bogdanovic have a good case as Utah’s best third and fourth players, perhaps in all of Jazz history. Hornacek and Russell were key players, but neither had the raw numbers of Mike and Bojan. Okur and Kirilenko were great, but the latter wasn’t as prolific during the Williams/Boozer era as he was during his lone All-Star season, just before the stars arrived.

Bojan isn't up with Horny or AK

8. The 2008–2009 Jazz

Best players: Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur (or Andrei Kirilenko if you prefer)
Win/loss percentage: 0.585
Playoff rounds: 1
Offensive ranking: 8
Defensive ranking: 10
The story: Boozer missed 45 games and this team fell flat after solid playoff pushes in the previous two years. It sported the worst win/loss record of the playoff teams. This resulted in a 1-4 loss to the Lakers, eventual champions that year behind Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol.

AK over Okur and Boozer all day. Millap too. Much like ow they were too small to compete with LA


7. The 2018–2019 Jazz

Best players: Rudy Gobert, Donovan Mitchell, Joe Ingles (or Ricky Rubio if you prefer)
Joe over Ricky anyday

6. The 2019–2020 Jazz

Best players: Rudy Gobert, Donovan Mitchell, Bojan Bogdanovic
Win/loss percentage: 0.611
Playoff rounds: 1
Offensive ranking: 10
Defensive ranking: 13
The story: Last year’s team could easily be ranked higher, but Mike Conley’s slow start and Bojan’s injury stunted its potential. Ultimately I’m giving playoff success the most weight, and all other teams made it further. But hey, if Mike’s half-court heave rims in — one of the biggest what ifs in team history — this is a very different story.

but if Mitchell gets the ball over half court, they play D. Snyder makes some changes...

3. The 2016–2017 Jazz

Best players: Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gobert, George Hill
Win/loss percentage: 0.622
Playoff rounds: 2
Offensive ranking: 12
Defensive ranking: 3
The story: This was a really fun team and the culmination of the core four era. Hayward’s statement season and Gobert’s rapid improvement led the Jazz to reimagine their identity coming out of the “Core Four” era, and Burks and Favors settled in as key role players. The addition of savvy vets like Boris Diaw, Johnson, and Hill combined with new players in Ingles and Rodney Hood resulted in a deep team that upset (and ultimately broke up) the Chris Paul-Blake Griffin Clippers.

Burks didn't play! Deep? This is when we saw what spacing could do around Gobert and yet they went away from that for two years!

1. The 2006–2007 Jazz

Best players: Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur
Win/loss percentage: 0.622
Playoff rounds: 3
Offensive ranking: 3
Defensive ranking: 18
The story: Yes, this team’s defense wasn’t great. Yes, they had some matchup luck when the eighth-seeded Warriors removed the 67-win Mavs from their playoff path. But ultimately they’re remembered by a Western Conference Finals appearance, and that’s what wins them the best team crown. They overachieved, won storyline points as a young team on the ascent, and their offense was fantastic, led by second-year Williams and bolstered by depth in Boozer, Okur, Kirilenko, Paul Millsap, C.J. Miles, Matt Harpring, and even the controversial Derek Fisher. They represent the high point of the 2000s Jazz.

Fisher at the 2!

Williams was the best Jazz player since Stockton and Malone, who jockeyed with Chris Paul for top point guard in the league designation and sniffed the fringes of MVP discussion1 The Jazz don’t as yet have a fringe MVP candidate. Donovan Mitchell will enter the conversation, but his body of work, accolades, and overall impact aren’t quite there yet. Rudy Gobert is the obvious contender, so let’s take a closer look at Williams vs. Gobert as the best players on their respective Jazz teams.

Rudy should be an MVP candidate every year

Unless you heavily favor offense, Rudy has the numbers edge. We’re comparing two very different players from slightly different eras, but I’m picking Rudy—not just from a statistical standpoint, but also from a legacy standpoint. Williams was unceremoniously traded in his 6th season while Gobert is entering his 9th season, and under contract for at least four more.

even if you favor offense Rudy is the man

Altogether, Utah’s top eight players could be the most talented of the batch. Would you take Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur, Andrei Kirilenko, Paul Millsap, Matt Harpring, Ronnie Brewer, and Kyle Korver over Gobert, Mitchell, Bogdanovic, Conley, Royce O’Neale, Ingles, Favors, and Jordan Clarkson?

Better role players on those teams. Rudy obviously better guy to build around at both ends

But the team is good enough to have a puncher’s chance against anyone, and we’ve seen heroic playoff performances before. They have talent and experience. The newer players have a year under their belt. Contract issues are settled. Rudy has a chip on his shoulder and Donovan will only get better. The oddities of a pandemic-influenced season add some chaos to the equation. As fans, it’s fair to ask, “why not this year?”

too small. Same players. Same coach. D. Versatility...

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat...-jazz-analysis

Only 10 players in the shot clock era have averaged at least 7.5 rebounds per game for a full seasons while standing 6-foot-4 and under. Notable members of this club are Hall of Famers Paul Arizin, Cliff Hagan, Jason Kidd and Jerry West. Russell Westbrook is the only active player to have done it over a full season.

Barkley

How exactly O’Neale has achieved this jump in rebounding total is likely not a terrible mystery. He’s crashing the boards more and is also likely spending more time guarding power forwards given he’s the nominal starter at that position (at least according to the guy announcing the lineup at Jazz games, every lineup estimation I can find says he plays SF whenever Joe Ingles or Bojan Bogdanovic share the court with him). He played this role a lot last year when Bogdanovic came to town and O’Neale went from averaging 3.4 and 3.5 rebounds as a rookie and sophomore to 5.5 last year.

His role is the same. He needs to be their perimeter defender. Need someone else to play the 4

O’Neale has usually grabbed between 22 and 27 offensive rebounds per season but he’s already at 16 this season. Seven of those 16 have been of the above variety, i.e. he’s hanging around the weak side, crashes the glass when a teammate takes a shot and snags the rebound. This doesn’t fully account for the radical increase, but it’s the more likely thing capable of sustaining his current volume for 72 games. It’s a pretty good use of his time out on the perimeter. He’s hardly involved in the offense otherwise so why not go after a few extra scrappy rebounds?

because they need him back in transition D

But have you seen Bogey defend in transition? His hands rarely come above his waist.
He isn’t stopping fast breaks anyway. He isn’t playing defense. He might as well try to get a rebound.

Posted by Kira Argonova on Jan 13, 2021 | 2:45 PM

trade him

Royce getting rebounds because outside of Rudy, either nobody cares, or they are soft and not rebounding types.
When it comes to down and dirty, Jazz are sparkling clean. And because of that, will never advance deep into the playoffs.

Posted by swampflyfishing3 on Jan 13, 2021 | 12:46 PM

pretty much

i still dont get why you dont like clarkson

Posted by letter to the Corinthians on Jan 13, 2021 | 2:38 PM

gunner?

also 5th in offensive boards at 11.5 which again seems high as it seems I curse at Rudy almost every game for not getting enough lol

Posted by SKMike on Jan 13, 2021 | 1:43 PM

that's on you. He's oe of the best

By the way, Derrick Favors deserves some love here, too.

Posted by Kira Argonova on Jan 13, 2021 | 1:49 PM

so did Bradley and all he got was blame

As I've said many times on here, our team really isn't too small. Our "rebounding struggles" were always a myth

Posted by Calvin Chappell on Jan 13, 2021 | 2:00 PM

They aren't versatile. Only play big if the other team does because it kills spacing. That's a problem

omg id trade conley for wall so fast

Posted by its_computers on Jan 14, 2021 | 12:29 AM

so much for spacing

[Xiao Yao You]

Chris Fedor: Another note on #Cavs involvement in today’s four-team blockbuster: They used their trade exception from the Jordan Clarkson deal to absorb Jarrett Allen’s $3.9 million salary
– via Twitter ChrisFedor

the trade that keeps on giving

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Sarah K. Spencer: Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce has been cleared by league medical staff and will be able to travel to Utah with the team today. He no longer has to isolate.
– via Twitter sarah_k_spence

[Xiao Yao You]

Ben Anderson: Rudy Gobert on Shaq: “Shaq is one of the guys that I looked up to as a young basketball player, someone that I respect. That doesn’t mean that I respect everything that he says.”
– via Twitter BensHoops

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Tony Jones: Quin Snyder on Bojan Bogdanovic – He’s not in harms way (wrist). There’s an acclimation period, learning to play through soreness. He’s about the toughest guy I’ve been around. There’s a process and he’s going through that process.
– via Twitter Tjonesonthenba



Tony Jones: Quin Snyder: Everyone wanted to play on Wednesday. As far as the additional time, there’s one day but it didn’t change too much, but you want to use every opportunity you have (The Jazz practiced this morning)
– via Twitter Tjonesonthenba



Tony Jones: Quin Snyder: The extra day gave a few guys a chance to take a minute and maybe work on some recovery
– via Twitter Tjonesonthenba

[Xiao Yao You]

Andy Larsen: Joe Ingles remains out with Achilles soreness for Jazz’s game vs. ATL. Juwan Morgan is out due to health and safety protocols, while Derrick Favors is probable due to right knee soreness.
– via Twitter andyblarsen

[Xiao Yao You]

https://kslsports.com/450897/jazz-ma...e-jazz-all-in/

This editions questions including Shaq Harrison’s role with the team, if the Jazz are truly all-in in their dedication to winning, and who the Jazz do and don’t match up well against in the West.

They brought back the same flawed team with the flawed Favors so obviously no.

Drawing the Defense


@drawing_defense




Shaq has gotten minimal playing time while Oni is getting some rotational minutes. I like Shaq and his potential/fit, but do you think the Jazz try to get out from his contract to duck some of the tax before the deadline?

3:35 PM · Jan 14, 2021

yeah it would suck to have a vet with a minimum contract sitting at the end of the bench

I don’t expect the Jazz to try to move him for salary cap purposes unless it felt like he was a bad cultural fit.

or he asks out which considering teams weren't lining up to sign him doesn't seem that likely either

Tommy Newell


@the__toe




What players on the roster do you not consider part of the Mitchell/Gobert long term plan? Is there a future "All-in" decision coming (where the future is probably compromised) or are we sort of seeing the front office's best efforts?

4:02 PM · Jan 14, 2021





2



See Tommy Newell’s other Tweets

All the guys not signed to big contracts which is pretty much all the guys not playing

Anderson: Looking purely at the Jazz salary cap table, the only main roster piece that I wouldn’t expect to be a part of the team’s long term future is Mike Conley. With so many high-profile names signing early extensions before the 2021 offseason, Conley’s value skyrocketed. It hasn’t helped that he’s playing great basketball either.

2nd best player. They need to figure it out

Otherwise, Bogdanovic, Clarkson, Ingles, O’Neale, and Favors all seem like logical rotation pieces going forward. The Jazz would really benefit from Oni, Elijah Hughes, or Trent Forrest proving they are legitimate NBA players in the next few months.

How will they prove that without playing? You forgot Morgan and Brantley. Morgan has already shown he's at worse a solid player. Brantley based on what he did in Gleague is fringe. Oni looks like he can play. Forrest is going to have to show he can shoot. Hughes is a gunner

Carsen Lindorff


@CarsenLindorff




It seems like the Jazz play well depending on the matchup (no quick scoring guards, drop big defense) rather than on the talent level of the opposing team. Which of the top 10 teams in the west do we matchup best against? Which do we matchup worst against?

3:24 PM · Jan 14, 2021

It's sad that they don't think they need to be versatile to matchup well with anyone. That would be all in

Denver seems to have taken a step backward with the loss of Jerami Grant and I would be surprised if Houston can’t jell quickly enough to be a threat to overtake the Jazz in the playoff picture, but that remains to be seen.

They lost more than Grant. Grant wanted to leave. It's the guys they let leave that were their mistake it seems

Devin Booker played the role of Jamal Murray, while Mikal Bridges looked like Jerami Grant streaking all over the floor disrupting the Jazz guards and forwards alike. When you mix in Chris Paul, who has always caused problems in Utah, that might be a uniquely bad matchup for the Jazz as the season progresses.

young team you'd hope they can beat them

Additionally, the Lakers only seem to have gotten better from last season, and the Jazz still have no answers for LeBron James or Anthony Davis.

what Bojan isn't the answer against them?

[Xiao Yao You]

https://kslsports.com/450882/jazz-bo...-will-improve/

Donovan Mitchell also started the season slowly but has averaged 27.2 points, 4.4 assists, and 3.6 rebounds over his last five games, indicating his slump is likely over.

not real familiar with Mitchell eh?

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat...-the-jazz-need

From opening night last season, Mike Conley just never really looked like Mike Conley. He had some good games and played well for stretches, but overall he just never seemed to really be that player that the Jazz traded assets for and were paying $30 Million+ a year for. A few nagging injuries, a new team, new coach, etc. all definitely contributed to this. Fast forward a few months following that missed buzzer-beater, and things are looking much different.

He as fine outside the first few games

Some of the plays Mike Conley made in this game were just insane. I don’t know about you, but I absolutely love the way that Conley plays. Everything about it; the way he dribbles, the way he moves, the way he shoots, they way he celebrates, it’s just beautiful. I’ve always been a sucker for left-handed basketball players, I swear their shots just look so much better. This game against the Clips showcases Conley’s scoring ability, and really what he’s been doing for years and years in this league.

their shots look weird to me

Wouldn’t it be worth a phone call to Orlando to see if they would trade Gordon for Conley. Of course, Orlando would have to send someone else to make the salaries match. I think they would be fine getting rid of Aminu. I don’t know what picks the Jazz have (getting Conley kind of raided the asset bin), but they may have to throw in a sweetener or get a third team involved to make it all work.
The Jazz would pick up 8" and a lot of defense and the would still have a strong guard line headlined by Mitchell and Clarkson. They would also get out of tax territory. Gordon is not the outside threat that Conley is but he still has enough capability to stretch the floor so Gobert/Favors can still have some operating room in the paint and the shooters would still have opportunities for open shots. I can see a starting lineup of Gobert, Gordon, Bogey, O’Neale, and Mitchell with Favors, Aminu, Niang, Ingles, and Clarkson coming off the bench with some perimeter shooting in that lineup as well. Plus they would have Gordon this season and next season and probably Aminu as well (player option for next year). If they don’t like Aminu, they could probably move him at the trade deadline or during the off-season.
Bottom line: I don’t see the Jazz in the NBA finals this year even with Conley. In fact, I think their chances improve with the better defense provided by Gordon plus a deeper rotation with 10 guys instead of 9. But this would provide more financial flexibility going forward as well as having a key asset for at least another year.
Just a thought …

Posted by jmnunes5 on Jan 14, 2021 | 2:20 PM

Why would they want a PF? The assets have been lost on trading players no one wants more than Conley. Niang or Aminu isn't playing in your scenario. They could have a deeper rotation now. They don't. Bojan is the guy I'd be looking to trade

That trade proposal (Conley for Gordan+Aminu) would put the Jazz payroll next season at $158,937,222.

All of that would be guaranteed except for Oni’s $1.8m.
That’s about $37m over the luxury tax without making any other trades or signing draft picks.
That’s pretty steep, but it would be a good team. We’ll have to call Agent Smith and see what he is willing to spend.

Posted by Kira Argonova on Jan 14, 2021 | 3:09 PM

another reason to move Bojan

I really like Gordon’s fit with Gobert and DM but UTA committed to Bojan, Clarkson, and Ingles as their key rotation players (i.e., $12-20m salaries) and unless one of those three are also traded I can’t see UTA bringing in more salary. That tax bill is steep, especially when that trade wouldn’t make UTA a clear title favorite. It’s one thing to pay $35m in luxury taxes if you’re the GSW dynasty but not justifiable for the #3 seed.
I haven’t looked at Aminu in a long time. It looks like he missed most of last season with a knee problem and then had surgery again in December. The surgery was supposed to be minor but there’s been no other update of his status (in my quick googling) which doesn’t seem good.
I’m not sure I’d want to trade for someone who only played 18 games last season and recently had knee surgery without seeing him in a game. Was he good before the knee problems? Again, I haven’t really looked into him for a while, but it seems like he was a decent 3-D forward (more D than 3), which would be a nice addition and would allow O’Neale to play more guard.

Posted by Palmetto Bug on Jan 14, 2021 | 5:38 PM

Ingles only has one more year I believe.