Only MJ won a bunch of rings with a 2nd option that was far beneath him statistically

**3ball** · 01-02-2021, 01:37 PM

aka carry-jobs... statistical proof:

PLAYOFFS

11' Dirk'........ 25.2 PER... 5.5 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.210 WS/48... 27.7 ppg
11' Terry....... 20.3 PER... 4.6 BPM... 1.1 VORP... 0.179 WS/48... 17.5 ppg
GAP.................. 4.9.............1.1........... 0.5............ 0.031............ 10.2

93' Jordan... 30.1 PER... 11.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.270 WS/48... 35.1 ppg
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER...'.. 2.0 BPM... 0.8 VORP... 0.083 WS/48... 20.1 ppg
GAP................. 13.2............ 9.6............ 2.1............ 0.187.......... 15.0

92' Jordan... 27.2 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.8 VORP... 0.216 WS/48... 34.5 ppg
92' Pippen... 20.1 PER.... 6.6 BPM... 2.0 VORP... 0.168 WS/48... 19.5 ppg
GAP................. 7.1............ 3.3............ 0.8............ 0.048............ 15.0

91' Jordan... 32.0 PER... 14.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.333 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
91' Pippen... 22.0 PER...'.. 6.5 BPM... 1.5 VORP... 0.197 WS/48... 21.6 ppg
GAP................. 10.0............ 8.1............ 1.4............ 0.136............ 9.5

96' Jordan... 26.7 PER.. 10.7 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.317 WS/48... 30.7 ppg
96' Pippen... 19.4 PER.'... 7.8 BPM.. 1.8 VORP.. 0.195 WS/48... 16.9 ppg
GAP................. 7.3............ 2.9............ 0.6............ 0.122............ 13.8

97' Jordan... 27.1 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.235 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
97' Pippen... 18.1 PER.... 5.1 BPM... 1.4 VORP... 0.145 WS/48... 19.2 ppg
GAP................. 9.1............ 4.8............ 1.0............ 0.090............ 11.9

98' Jordan... 28.1 PER.... 9.0 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.265 WS/48... 32.4 ppg
98' Pippen... 19.4 PER.... 5.6 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.166 WS/48... 16.8 ppg
GAP................. 8.7............ 3.4............ 0.8............ 0.095............ 16.4

CONCLUSION - only Jordan had a bunch of carry-job rings that were far greater carry-jobs than 11' Dirk

**FireDavidKahn** · 01-02-2021, 01:56 PM

GOAT defense isn't reflect in basic box score stats

**8Ball** · 01-02-2021, 01:56 PM

Jordan had a team that won 55 games after he left led by big *** Pip.

Kawhi Leonard as well. Team was on 60 win pace in 2020.

CONCLUSION - Jordan was bird fed great teams like AD was bird fed points.

**trada7029** · 01-02-2021, 01:57 PM

It's interesting because AD matched lebron in PER, PPG and WS for the 2020 playoffs

and Kyrie matched lebron's PPG in 2016..

So only mj won a bunch of rings with a sidekick was far lower statistically (PER, BPM, VORP, WS, and PPG), aka carry-jobs

**8Ball** · 01-02-2021, 01:58 PM

Talking about PER.

LeBron had higher PER playoff peaks than Jordan.

More 30 point PER playoff runs.

7 vs 3.

LeBron has a higher peak than Jordan.

**3ball** · 01-02-2021, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by FireDavidKahn

GOAT defense isn't reflect in basic box score stats

Lebron hasn't been all defense in 8 years and he's barely a top 15 scorer

That's an entirely lower level than scoring champ and top 5 dpoy from 88-98'.... the GOAT level (best scorer and defender)

**8Ball** · 01-02-2021, 02:01 PM

Scoring? What?

LeBron surpassed Jordan in scoring ability years ago.

1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 LeBRON JAMES 34,384
4 Kobe Bryant 33,643

I don't see Jordan anywhere in the top 4? What the hell are you talking bout scoring?

**FireDavidKahn** · 01-02-2021, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by 8Ball

Scoring? What?

LeBron surpassed Jordan in scoring ability years ago.

1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 LeBRON JAMES 34,384
4 Kobe Bryant 33,643

I don't see Jordan anywhere in the top 4? What the hell are you talking bout scoring?

When LeBron retires he will likely be the scoring champ as well as top 5 assists ever

**3ball** · 01-02-2021, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by 8Ball

Scoring? What?

LeBron surpassed Jordan in scoring ability years ago.

1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 LeBRON JAMES 34,384
4 Kobe Bryant 33,643

I don't see Jordan anywhere in the top 4? What the hell are you talking bout scoring?

per game

per game capability is what measures scoring ability, otherwise reggie miller is a better scorer than bird

**Gray GOAT** · 01-02-2021, 02:04 PM

Only LeBron beat the greatest team of all time with 0 all-stars.

**8Ball** · 01-02-2021, 02:05 PM

LeBron > Jordan ALL TIME SCORING

James Harden has a bunch of 35 ppg seasons, nobody cares because he doesn't have a Pippen to elevate him in the playoffs. Harden has 21K all time points, LeBron has 34K. Nobody cares about Harden scoring titles.

1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 LeBRON JAMES 34,384
4 Kobe Bryant 33,643

Get back to me when Jordan gets into the top 4.

**3ball** · 01-02-2021, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Gray GOAT

Only LeBron beat the greatest team of all time with 0 all-stars.

No one thinks any team where Curry is the top guy is a goat team

They had a goat regular season run but that doesn't equal goat - they weren't favorites or real champs until KD got there (kyrie wins in 15' if healthy obviously)

Then Lowry got the chip in 19', therefore confirming Curry's weakness

**HBK_Kliq_2** · 01-02-2021, 02:10 PM

No way Pippen was ever as bad as Pascal Siakam. Look at Siakam's numbers this season so far:

2% win share per 48
9.8 PER
48% TS

Siakam also walked off the court in game 3 this season and was disciplined for it. So he has the Pippen mannerisms down as well, when Pippen refused to play because Kukoc last shot hahahah

Literally a g leaguer in disguise.

We would never have to worry about this if Kawhi/Durant were smart and teamed up. Instead they picked dumbasses to play with (Irving, PG). So now LeBron still has the best co star.

**8Ball** · 01-02-2021, 02:11 PM

Scoring titles are near meaningless achievement.

Scoring title winners:

2000-01 Allen Iverson
2001–02 Allen Iverson
2002–03 Tracy McGrady
2003–04 Tracy McGrady
2004–05 Allen Iverson
2005–06 Kobe Bryant
2006–07 Kobe Bryant
2007–08 LeBron James
2008–09 Dwyane Wade
2009–10 Kevin Durant
2010–11 Kevin Durant
2011–12 Kevin Durant
2012–13 Carmelo Anthony
2013–14 Kevin Durant
2014–15 Russell Westbrook
2015–16 Stephen Curry
2016–17 Russell Westbrook
2017–18 James Harden
2018–19 James Harden
2019–20 James Harden

ZERO CHAMPIONSHIPS for scoring title leaders those years they won.

Meaningless achievement.

Ball hogging chucking.

Stat padding

LeBron did it once and realized how stupid it was, and never did it again. Last 20 years, leading scorer has never won a championship in the year they won scoring title.

**2ball** · 01-02-2021, 02:23 PM

No Pip no chip. Only MJ in the consensus goat top 3 was shackled to one player.

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